The pilot shortage is over?

[poser765]

No obviously they don’t want to pay for it but they would probably that cost instead of lawsuit payouts. So yeah they are doing it for the bottom line.

As far as whether or not it’s working… anecdotal experiences don’t don’t disprove efficacy. Statistics MIGHT. Also your example doesn’t really prove it’s not working… it shows that a hooked are going to a hole regardless of training they’ve been through. Again… the training isn’t for them, it’s for people that don’t know any better.

Is your argument really “people will still do bad things so let’s do nothing”?

 

[knot4u]

No obviously they don’t want to pay for it but they would probably that cost instead of lawsuit payouts. So yeah they are doing it for the bottom line.

As far as whether or not it’s working… anecdotal experiences don’t don’t disprove efficacy. Statistics MIGHT. Also your example doesn’t really prove it’s not working… it shows that a hooked are going to a hole regardless of training they’ve been through. Again… the training isn’t for them, it’s for people that don’t know any better.

Is your argument really “people will still do bad things so let’s do nothing”?

I'm not sure what a "hooked" or a "hole" is, I suspect that's some ice fishing talk and I've never been, sounds miserable, but different strokes for different folks. People, despite their smiling face, are not always inherently "good". I'll say again I've never worked on a 121 airplane, nor have I ever worked for a 121 airline. But just think for a minute about the staggering amount of money being spent by companies large and small to try to either separate the wheat from the chaff or protect themselves from liability and how successful it's been. It's an industry, is it effective? Doesn't seem to be because all of the same old things still seem to happen all the time, because people are flawed and there's no getting around it. I'm just speaking from personal experience, for me the training is a waste of time. I don't care about race, gender, religion or sexual preference, none of those things have any influence on the work we're there to do. If everyone's jumped the hurdles and gone through the hoops to get there do you honestly think an annual 2 hour CBT is going to change them? What if that person, this is probably more MX based than pilot, is really good at their job? I've seen it, an • is very smart and experienced so the company will bend over backwards to not lose that resource before it ends up biting them in the ass. This subject is not aviation specific, it applies to every facet of society. You ask if "people will still do bad things so let's do nothing?". I'd say no, but what we're doing now isn't working.

 

[poser765]

I'm not sure what a "hooked" or a "hole" is, I suspect that's some ice fishing talk and I've never been, sounds miserable, but different strokes for different folks. People, despite their smiling face, are not always inherently "good". I'll say again I've never worked on a 121 airplane, nor have I ever worked for a 121 airline. But just think for a minute about the staggering amount of money being spent by companies large and small to try to either separate the wheat from the chaff or protect themselves from liability and how successful it's been. It's an industry, is it effective? Doesn't seem to be because all of the same old things still seem to happen all the time, because people are flawed and there's no getting around it. I'm just speaking from personal experience, for me the training is a waste of time. I don't care about race, gender, religion or sexual preference, none of those things have any influence on the work we're there to do. If everyone's jumped the hurdles and gone through the hoops to get there do you honestly think an annual 2 hour CBT is going to change them? What if that person, this is probably more MX based than pilot, is really good at their job? I've seen it, an • is very smart and experienced so the company will bend over backwards to not lose that resource before it ends up biting them in the ass. This subject is not aviation specific, it applies to every facet of society. You ask if "people will still do bad things so let's do nothing?". I'd say no, but what we're doing now isn't working.

Ok I’ll sum this up very succinctly.

This is an issue of risk reduction… not risk elimination. The later is good but unattainable. The former is still good.

I have two employees. One makes racist jokes at the office. The other flirts with another employee daily. I put them through sensitivity training. The one thinks it’s stupid and keeps making racist jokes. The other didn’t realize his behavior was inappropriate and stops. I’ve now gone from two potential lawsuits to one.

 

[knot4u]

Ok I’ll sum this up very succinctly.

This is an issue of risk reduction… not risk elimination. The later is good but unattainable. The former is still good.

I have two employees. One makes racist jokes at the office. The other flirts with another employee daily. I put them through sensitivity training. The one thinks it’s stupid and keeps making racist jokes. The other didn’t realize his behavior was inappropriate and stops. I’ve now gone from two potential lawsuits to one.

And you spent thousands of dollars to end up in the same place you would've been anyway. Do employers need to provide evidence that their employees have been told, in 2023, that misbehaving isn't acceptable? Yes, they do. You don't actually care about either employees behavior, you just want protection when that person either acts out or acts out and gets fired. That person went through the training, it's not my fault. It has nothing to do with people, it's just another box for an actuary to check. Who hired these people?

 

[poser765]

And you spent thousands of dollars to end up in the same place you would've been anyway. Do employers need to provide evidence that their employees have been told, in 2023, that misbehaving isn't acceptable? Yes, they do. You don't actually care about either employees behavior, you just want protection when that person either acts out or acts out and gets fired. That person went through the training, it's not my fault. It has nothing to do with people, it's just another box for an actuary to check. Who hired these people?

I mean actuaries aren’t typically idiots…

 

[knot4u]

I mean actuaries aren’t typically idiots…

I agree. But if you let them run your business you'll never profit. Just my opinion. I'm surprised anyone gets hired anywhere anymore, everyone is a liability for some reason. I remember huge Christmas parties held at a hotel ballroom and all of the employees could have a room if they wanted to or not. Sometimes things got sloppy, the palm reader (my wife worked for a man who threw huge parties) at one told me my hands were rough and strong and the lines on my palms were dangerous. I was in a party full of people that built tunnels, not small tunnels but big tunnels with huge machines with enormous rotating bits that chewed through the earth, moved the dirt and set the concrete. I'm unsure what that gipsy thought but the guys with the really strong hands and rough palms had already accepted me and their opinion carried more weight. Those days are long gone and will never happen again. I often wonder if we're better off now.

 

[Richman]

I’m 5’8” and a fraction, so I can tell you the pilot shortage is real and isn’t going anywhere.

 

[///AMG]

I’m 5’8” and a fraction, so I can tell you the pilot shortage is real and isn’t going anywhere.

I'd say a slight majority of Navy Admirals I've known/worked for, have been shorter than you. Do we also have an Admiral shortage? When I worked in Fallon, we had one that was short enough (maybe 5'4") we couldn't see when he walked into the cube farm that was our office. Someone proposed that we make him wear an actual flag on a small pole so that we would be alerted to his presence