Mr Toad’s Wild Ride

[DPApilot]

Condescending much?

I get that everyone is so super standard that they wouldn't ever violate What The Company Wants(tm), and thus would Never Have An Issue With Anything Ever(tm), but setting that aside for a moment, from the perspective of a lowly 175 driver, the speeds and distances listed don't sound like "shouldn't be able to stop" distance, and that's the whole point I was trying to discuss.

Now I may be completely wrong when it comes to a Real Jet(tm), and I'm sure I'll be schooled by all the 737 drivers, which is actually just fine. Tell me I'm wrong, that 1000' remaining at 80 knots in a heavy 737 is crazy, that rolling to 4000' before braking is pushing it. I'll totally believe it, 100%, and be glad to know more than I did before. Tell me that the definition of "wet" versus "dry," enshrined in the manuals of Said Company, is crystal clear, or that the runway was reported to be wet, or NOTAMed wet, or had lower-than-6 RCCs. Tell me that from an experienced point of view on a given fleet, you're sure the guy was covering his tail. I'm game for any and all of that. I'd love to learn more about the relative performance of various airplanes in similar situations, and even knowing things like how the autobrake system differs from mine. But I don't have access to Said Company procedures, I don't know what those lines are excerpted from, and I'd welcome commentary from people who are actually familiar with it. If you selectively quote things the right way from any manuals, you can hang pretty much any crew any time.

Now, that said, I don't need to hear is how Good You Are at following procedures, or how "Brawndo's got Electrolytes."

And frankly, I REALLY, TRULY DO NOT CARE what SJ policy is. I don't work for SJ, and the airplane in question isn't a SJ airplane. The crew isn't an SJ crew.

I know, crazy huh?

Not trying that in the least. Per Untied’s procedures, the did all the not when it comes to landing. My point is there’s no reason to reinvent the wheel when we are at work. If Brand X says do it this way, how hard is it to do it that way? It sure leaves out the possibility for people to converse about it on the interwebs.

 

[derg]

I'm more of a "Bossman says 'do this task with this procedure and receive money' and I like money!"

 

[Boots2Wings]

Safe>legal>”Does this make sense?”

My decision making matrix.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I'm more of a "Bossman says 'do this task with this procedure and receive money' and I like money!"

You like money? We should hang out.

 

[Boots2Wings]

You like money? We should hang out.

 

[derg]

You like money? We should hang out.

Yes I do!

 

[DPApilot]

Yes I do!

View attachment 77339

Gets one rib. Asks for change for a hundred.

 

[BobDDuck]

3) We have to at least go into reverse idle every landing or FOQA gives us a ping, but generally, my rule is go full until I see DECEL so I know autobrakes work, and then I can be smoothy-mic-smooth with rollout.

Just a note... DECEL doesn't have anything to do with the autobrakes. It just means that the deceleration is at least 80% of the commanded rate (2 meters/sec at LOW and 3 meters/sec at MED). In theory you could get the light to come on with just spoiler and TR usage, especially once you get into the lower speeds.

 

[Boots2Wings]

Just a note... DECEL doesn't have anything to do with the autobrakes. It just means that the deceleration is at least 80% of the commanded rate (2 meters/sec at LOW and 3 meters/sec at MED). In theory you could get the light to come on with just spoiler and TR usage, especially once you get into the lower speeds.

True. Its just my simple brain way of going “hey we’re slowing appropriately for now”.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'm more of a "Bossman says 'do this task with this procedure and receive money' and I like money!"

yOu’Re bY tHe bOoK

 

[derg]

yOu’Re bY tHe bOoK

That's dumb and I wish you IBS today.

 

[///AMG]

Wait, auto brakes are required at SJI? Did I read that?

 

[BobDDuck]

Wait, auto brakes are required at SJI? Did I read that?

They were required over here as well up until our most recent update. Now they are just recommended on dry runways (but required if available on anything else).

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That's dumb and I wish you IBS today.

Of course it’s dumb. I basically said and espouse what you said, but I got the “by the book” commentary.

 

[Beep]

Gets one rib. Asks for change for a hundred.

“ !$* the cup, just pour it in my hand for a dime “

 

[Toobdrvr]

Wait, auto brakes are required at SJI? Did I read that?

Yep.

At least on the 3 planes I’ve been on. At least min AB is reqd unless they’re inop (don’t think I’ve ever seen that).

Nothing stops you from deactivating them shortly after touchdown (if it makes sense)…

 

[🦈💜]

Stepping back, I think what might be rubbing people the wrong way is the insinuation that anyone is implying something other than "Fly the airplane the way the company wants."

To wit, "I just follow procedure," implies that people who are trying to discuss the nuance of the incident must not be.

That very much feels like being talked down to, whether it's intended or not. You do view us as peers, as equals, right?

This whole business is about process and performance, and at this level the assumption is that we're following process. Comparing procedures between operators is interesting, but sometimes the examination of performance needs to occur separate from of the examination of process.

 

[MikeD]

My small shop, no TR use (besides unlock/idle) required, no autobrake required. However, it’s understood that if anything happens damage-wise or such where use of those would have made a difference and you chose not to use them, then you buy it.

 

[MikeD]

I made that comment at the beginning of the other thread on this subject when it happened. The whole runway is mine until I clear it. The whole “you can roll to the end if you expedite” is b.s. I can roll to the end if I so choose, if it’s quick enough for you, great. If not, I guess someone is going around.

I’m not putting my career on the line on a contaminated runway because a controller’s got em stacked.

While this is true, it’s also true that an aircrew shouldn’t ask for a favor, get it approved with a caveat from ATC that the crew agrees to, then proceed to dilly dally on the runway for some unreasonable amount of time, and force a go around. That would not be cool either. Though in this case, it appears they may have rushed themselves.

The crew could have easily declined after the caveat was presented from ATC, with a “Nevermind, we’ll just exit normally”.

 

[bimmerphile]

I still dont get how rolling to the end and then making a 90deg turn saves a significant amount of time vs taking a high speed on the parallel taxiway to the same point in space*

sometime ill do the math but back of the napkin says ‘this is dumb’


*margin of error includes position drift from prepared surface to manhole cover in the weeds