Derg tells Cherokee to put his money where his pilot selection grievances are

[BEEF SUPREME]

United too right? Didn't they once occupy the N satellite?

It's why there are so many United commuters.

 

[scooter2525]

I just came here to say “yikes on bikes”. Reminds me of a post we have on our union forum. A member didn’t like what someone posted under his post so he made an entirely new post calling the member out in an attempt to… I really don’t know. Kind of like this post.

Yeah those threads aren’t a good look for the pilot group. And the “usual suspects” drive a lot of the “I may be new here” away.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

You two should get a room.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

My only contribution to this, today.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I just came here to say “yikes on bikes”. Reminds me of a post we have on our union forum. A member didn’t like what someone posted under his post so he made an entirely new post calling the member out in an attempt to… I really don’t know. Kind of like this post.

Any similarities in facial expressions I may have just made that looked like Toby Flenderson's facial expressions are purely coincidental. I can't imagine running a union webboard in this day and age.

 

[JordanD]

I love how the guy who endlessly bitches about California and admits it’s his family’s choice to live there wants to hire based on zip code.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

View attachment 78334

My only contribution to this, today.

Me in my first year at Eskimo Airways:

Captain: Hey why don't you get a job at Delta or United. They are hiring you know.

Me: I applied but they never called.

Captain: Why not? They are hiring.

Me: I don't know. They still haven't even after getting the job here. I still pay for airline apps and everything is current.

Captain: You have to pay to apply?!

Me: WTF

Captain: I hear they are hiring thousands. You could fly a widebody.

Me: Here check this out. *Hands over phone with screenshot with TBNT from Allegiant.

Captain: You got a thanks but no thanks from Allegiant?!

Me: Yeah after I got four internal recommendations, I went to a job fair and spoke in person with the chief pilot.

Captain: WTF

 

[mwflyer]

I like how you do the illegal thing because you think you cant get caught

Just like his hero.

 

[mwflyer]

I love how the guy who endlessly bitches about California and admits it’s his family’s choice to live there wants to hire based on zip code.

He’s a walking contradiction.

 

[JordanD]

He’s a walking contradiction.

Yeah, I’m a little baffled by the effort people put into replying to his nonsense that’s clearly in bad faith or just so inane it’s not worth wasting energy on.

 

[derg]

Speaking with @MikeD last night, I figured out that I’m “Le Tired”.

I’ve been the “Samwise” to aviation’s “Frodo” for over 25 years. The path is wrought with danger, Oruks and can be murderous but I will show you guys the path to Mordor and then back out of it to the shire of career success but I’ve basically created an elaborate complaint desk.

Bring me your grievances, I’l echo about how unfair the world is, serve you a piece of pie, give you and your besties a job and say something colloquial like “after this slice pie, you’ll feel right as rain”.

If you have better ideas on how the system works and you haven’t volunteered to make those changes at risk of getting laughed out of the room by the company attorney and HR, come back to me when you have.

Professional aviation is hard because it’s worth it and the “grind” keeps out the riff riff by making pilots prove their mettle.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Overall, you're using single determinate to exclude or include certain applicants. That's not how the system works.

Absolutely you can. Like a known felon, eliminate based on one thing. That is what competitive selection is.

I know that’s not how it works. I told you how to fix it.

"He's got a checkride failure and I have NONE, why did you hire HIM instead of me?!" — because that's a single determinate in a galaxy of determinates. Maybe he could listen and answer a question whereas the unsuccessful applicant kept calling the interviewer "bro", gave a robust, canned answer to the wrong question and didn't bring required materials.

Now you’re talking about the physical interview and asking him questions and how he responded better than a perfect checkride guy. We were not there yet. Talking about calling people to interview so they actually have to get into that room first.

Not required, not even considered in the process. That's a creation of the "bitternet" - you know, the folks that just sportbitch on the internet about their lot in life. "I didn't volunteer enough is the reason I don't have a job" — 100% of those guys that say things like that, when you do the 'courtesy review' of their application have things they're not telling you about. I will put money on that because that's first-hand experience.

This is BS and you know it. I’m not going through forum post history, but you and many others basically espoused the whole thing. Along the lines of, everyone else has turbine time and TPIC, how have you stood out? And the big topic was volunteer work and how you should highlight that. That was certainly the case in 2013-2019. Hopefully this BS goes away entirely.

If you're looking at a private pilot checkride failure, that's moronic.

You can bet if I bungle up an approach and crash, the NTSB report will have one entire section dealing with how I effed up my initial training , including private pilot checkride failure. (I never failed any checkride). Just saying. Moronic? Maybe. But it is what it is.

You do. You do realize that for corporations of a certain size are privy to audits by the EEOC on how they hire and the methodologies? Could you pass an audit? Did you know there are audits?

Easily possible. Just as Delta hires 0 TPIC while passing over many more qualified on paper applicants. No class action suit. Fact remains, you can internally screen out just in just about any topic. No one is gonna be able to prove that it was willful conduct.

No, but you can't apply "I bought a King Air, I need to hire a pilot to fly it" methodologies with thousands of pilots. You don't have the time resources.

You can certainly screen them out though, as I mentioned. With my methods you can take a pile of 10k and have it narrowed down to 500.

But if they haven't moved to base, you wouldn't hire them. See your previous post about zip codes.

Hmmm. If they really want the job, they’ll move there beforehand. Show your dedication.

This has never been the case. PRD > PRIA largely because it cuts some of the tomfoolery out that some carriers pull in terms of retaliatory checkride failures. Do you know about retaliatory checkride failures, where they were prevalent, periods of time to "de emphasize" 121 SIC type ride failures 'for reasons'?

Huh? Wasn’t Atlas shocked at his background, and didn’t know about one of his regionals at all? Because you give me the PRIA form and I disclose to you what the airlines are I worked at. If I don’t tell you I was at Regionals R Us in 2011-2012, you wouldn’t know to send them a PRIA.

How many PRDs, OPRs or NATOPS folders have you read? Do you know how to actually interpret them?

No. But I have a feeling I’d become a master at it overnight. I have a thing for checkride failures. They directly correlate to worse incident/accident cases.

Yeah, you've gotten your airline sued a number of times. It's a pattern alright. A "Class Action" pattern.

Were they? LOLz

Is it? Show receipts.

Umm, you’re aware iAero shut down? Jobless not by choice.

So will a 250 hour commercial pilot.

That pilot is not a 'crappy pilot'. 320 school kicked my ass because I was trying to fly it like a 330, which is very similar, but at the time flown somewhat differently. Am I a crappy pilot? My second FAA Letter of Authorization to serve as a line check airman disagrees with you. Flex? You bet.

Mad Dog school? A breeze for me. The other guy in my class? Not so much because he flew Super-80's at American and when he wasn't complaining about how American did it, he was screwing up the callouts. He ultimately did fine, but oftentimes previous experience isn't a positive trait.

Why do you think a flight attendant has a better chance of going from accounting to in-flight compared to a flight attendant going from American to United?

That’s all fine and dandy. How do you screw up callouts? Just study. Most people can adapt. The younger you are, the easier it is.

It's always OK when you don't have domain expertise to ask questions about 'why'. It's even good to debate as long as you realize you need to also learn and grow after the conversation. When you bring your plastic kazoo to the London Symphony, sometimes it's best to put it away and listen to the performance and expand your musical tastes. But you keep playing that damned kazoo louder and louder and it annoys the hell out of those with actual knowledge and they decide to not even bother offering experienced perspectives.

Thank you for the stick figures and crayon drawings. But don't forget that's what they are, nothing more.

Nah thanks. How many big legacy job fairs did you go to before Age 27 when hired at Delta? In the end, that is what matters. You’re still talking from the orchestra pit, I’m talking from the audience pit. You’re inside your own zone. I’m referring to those outside that get to look into the zone. You won’t be able to give an honest critique of your own zone because you are ensconced by it. As an outsider who did the job fair rounds in 2011, 2016, and 2017, I have a different perspective being from the audience pit.

The whole process is crap. It’s BS. It’s an insult to the profession that we have this and have to put up with it. You won’t understand why she feels the way she does about this subject, but I do understand where she’s coming from.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

View attachment 78334

My only contribution to this, today.

Why? Are they mad they have to show up on time, office work is getting called back, and you actually have to produce results?


I don’t know how it is today, but the last couple years, people were quiet quitting their jobs doing the absolute least amount required. You know, Bob, it makes a guy do just enough to not get fired. Or some were even quitting with no job lined up because they took for granted a very strong job market.

 

[derg]

I’m already done with the conversation. I am the Neil DeGrasse Tyson to your Terrence Howard. Your Google ain’t broke, look it up.

Put down the Kazoo and apply for Pilot Selection at Alaska. Share you grand ideas with them and, after HR stops laughing at you, share with us what you’ve learned.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I love how the guy who endlessly bitches about California and admits it’s his family’s choice to live there wants to hire based on zip code.

How’s that a contradiction? Sounds more like I put my money where my mouth is. . You want that job that badly, move there.

I’ve lived in SFO, NYC, and now LAX. All 3 VX bases.

Are you hiring to minimize attrition? If so, then absolutely you need to consider where they live. Don’t be obvious about it.

 

[alaskadrifter]

United too right? Didn't they once occupy the N satellite?

I ‘member when UAL owned the N gates. There was green carpet like PDX, they also used to have an ANC freight base but they closed it and sold the DC-10s to FedEx because there’s no money in freight. They walked away from widebody flying out of SEA and let the death star carriers take it over. How ironic that AS opening a widebody base there is a distinct possibility now.

 

[derg]

I love how the guy who endlessly bitches about California and admits it’s his family’s choice to live there wants to hire based on zip code.

He’s basically a case study for “Generative AI virtual girlfriends for married men who wish to remain monogamous”

The commercial will say: “End the bitterness. We solve the lonely”

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I ‘member when UAL owned the N gates. There was green carpet like PDX, they also used to have an ANC freight base but they closed it and sold the DC-10s to FedEx because there’s no money in freight. They walked away from widebody flying out of SEA and let the death star carriers take it over. How ironic that AS opening a widebody base there is a distinct possibility now.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

I’m hiring a pilot first. All the other stuff comes second. My cutoff is multiple checkride failures. I’d eliminate at least half that pile.

So, if you had someone that had no check ride failures and no instructor ratings against someone that busted an MEI ride, but had 1,000 multi dual given, which would you pick?

The pass rate for part 61 ratings is historically between 70 and 80%. When you look at a likely air carrier applicant, they will typically have at least 5 check rides, with 0.75^5 = ~23% that have no check ride failures. Still a big pool. If they have instructor certificates, 0.75^8 = ~10% that's a much smaller pool, but probably includes a lot of pilots you would want to hire. Take 9 check rides, the odds of passing all on the first attempt are 7%. There is probably some correlation this isn't taking into account - there might be some really bad pilots that bust 15 check rides skewing the odds, but this should be close.

Another question, that I don't know the answer to, is how strongly check ride busts correlate to pilot proficiency. Anecdotally, I've flow with some really good pilots that have busted check rides, and some really horrible ones that haven't. So, asking about them during interviews is probably a better way to do things.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Obvious caveat for the feds to sign off on it. Why wouldn’t the put them in SEA?