My side of the story (Falcon F/O)

[SurferLucas]

Let me put it to you this way:

From the evidence that I've seen on here and on "the other forum", in my mind he is a scab.

However, I have no say into the fact if he gets the "SCAB" label. In order for him to get that label and be placed on the "Scab List", it has to done by the Spirit MEC and ALPA National. (As I have understood it, if that's not the case, feel free to correct me.)

They have all of the evidence, certainly more than I do from an online forum.

If the Spirit MEC says "We have found sufficient evidence not to label FO Onno as a Scab", I will be happy with that answer.

So let me ask you a question, what are your qualifications?

Have you ever been a union member? Have you ever had to deal with airline management and their tactics? Have you ever had someone cross a picket line and take your job?

If you can't answer yes to those questions, you should sit back and learn something...I see on your profile that it says "Student" and "172".

As I've said before, aviation is a very small community. This forum is a great tool for learning and networking. People on here will go out of their way to help you learn and get a leg up. I have my current job because of this website and a friend that I've made on here.

If you come on here acting like a "know-it-all" and start challenging people on here that have a good standing, you're going to make yourself into a pariah.

 

[SteveC]

I make the assumption that this person is an educated, intelligent, rational human who is capable of examining facts and making an informed, independent decision. I further assume that he is a competent, professional practicing in his field, and therefore has the standing within the professional community to say "Yes he is a scab because of this," or "No, he is not a scab because of that."

On the other hand, a union thug just sits back and waits for "the union" to tell him what to do. The poster has admitted that this is his intention. Ok, so I ask the question: Which are you?

Ah, did I miss the notice about Slanted Question Day?

Here is my question for you:

When did you quit beating your wife?

irate:

 

[BaronPete]

Question! How is this fabled scab list maintained? What keeps some jerk from adding a name out of spite?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Question! How is this fabled scab list maintained? What keeps some jerk from adding a name out of spite?

The "fabled scab list" that most people carry is actually an unofficial list compiled by people not associated with ALPA. However, it was compiled mostly from official scab lists that were certified by ALPA MECs after strikes. The only official lists are published by ALPA, and I'm not aware of one being published since the EAL MEC published theirs in 1991.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

When did you quit beating your wife?

irate:

Or molesting boys!

The truth is out!

 

[WacoFan]

"Creep" works both ways. You can expand the "SCAB" definition to include various other "non-SCAB" activities...but you can also start to give breaks where they used to not exist or where the better part of peoples natures will allow second chances. This seems cut and dried - there was a strike, a line was crossed, and a lack of situational awareness is never a great thing for a pilot to possess. If this isn't an example of "SCAB" then what really is? What is the point of a list, or blacklisting, or even labor unions if the idea that you can cross a line with impunity or "by mistake" and be forgiven? Just my opinion, but valid questions I think.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Thanks for coming to explain yourself. Regardless of the whys and wherefores, and proceeding under the assumption that the Spirit MEC is in a less-than-forgiving frame of mind right about now, I would guess that you might want to save the postage on those applications to union carriers. This is not the end of the world, there are other jobs in aviation (if that's what you want to pursue), and not all of them are awful. If you do find a good one, I'd entreaty you to be more aware of what's going on around you. Just like flying the plane, it only takes once...

As a guy looking to eventually go the other way (non-union -> union), I will just say that your story ought to be posted on every flight school wall with neon flashing lights surrounding it. My guess is you're being Mostly Honest, but it's not for me to decide that or what the repercussions will be. Whatever happens, good luck, and remember to keep that SA up down the line.

 

[n77j]

Can you all imagine if this guy shows up for (NetworkJC 2010)! There will be beer bottles flying around

 

[ChasenSFO]

I will just say that your story ought to be posted on every flight school wall with neon flashing lights surrounding it.

:yeahthat:

Much like the pilots who lost, or almost lost, their careers over flying intoxicated, I think what you are going through can most positively be channeled into teaching the next generation of pilots not to repeat your mistakes. The importance of unity in the industry, and whats more, the consequences of not being aware of what is going on in the industry probably are not as well understood with young fliers as they should be. The sad truth is that if a pilot group were on strike, and management offered pilots a chance to get hired to sit in their seats with low enough minimums, I'd be willing to wager that many young pilots would jump at the chance with no thought as to the significance of their actions. This thread alone could serve as a learning experience to someone unfamiliar with the politics of the industry, I know as someone with no 121 experience I learned a lot from it. It is just a thought I'm throwing out there, but sometimes when you can't fix a situation, you can at least spare others the same fate.

 

[Bumblebee]

Can you all imagine if this guy shows up for (NetworkJC 2010)! There will be beer bottles flying around

Silence wherever he turns....

 

[KLB]

Thanks for coming to explain yourself. Regardless of the whys and wherefores, and proceeding under the assumption that the Spirit MEC is in a less-than-forgiving frame of mind right about now, I would guess that you might want to save the postage on those applications to union carriers. This is not the end of the world, there are other jobs in aviation (if that's what you want to pursue), and not all of them are awful. If you do find a good one, I'd entreaty you to be more aware of what's going on around you. Just like flying the plane, it only takes once...

As a guy looking to eventually go the other way (non-union -> union), I will just say that your story ought to be posted on every flight school wall with neon flashing lights surrounding it. My guess is you're being Mostly Honest, but it's not for me to decide that or what the repercussions will be. Whatever happens, good luck, and remember to keep that SA up down the line.

Boris says it better than I could.

 

[O&M]

Given that the "scab" label can be so devastating to a person's career, I would think that people would be extremely judicious in applying it. Yet, from what I can see here, people are quite willing to hand it out like they're handing out candy at a parade. It seems only fair and appropriate that if you're going to hang that scarlet letter on someone, you'd do the utmost to ensure that it is deserved, and not allow a small, faceless group known as the "Spirit MEC" to hang that label on whoever they're pissed off with at the moment. At the very least, you'd think it'd be decided above that level, as they certainly do not have an objective point-of-view.

It's beyond my understanding how you can bitch about sneaky "management tactics," and in the next breath pillory a guy who may have been taken in by them. Which side of this argument do you want to be on? It's short-sighted thinking, and does more to cause dis-unity rather than it does to deter future behavior.

It could just as easily happen to you. One day you're a member in good standing, and the next day, you're accused of being a scab, and the person who gets to decide is the one doing the accusing.

I'm not saying this fellow does or doesn't deserve it. I'm saying let the man have his day in court, and let someone besides the aggrieved party (i.e. the Spirit MEC) make the decision.

One final thought: From what I can see, ALPA has thrown their own people under the bus on any number of occasions, and then has the nerve to act surprised when these people disrespect the union.

 

[O&M]

One other thought. ALPA seems very forgiving of mistakes when they occur in the cockpit. They're the first to leap to the pilot's defense after an incident/accident, even before the facts are known. But for some reason, that courtesy does not extend beyond the cockpit. Why is that?

 

[Bumblebee]

Given that the "scab" label can be so devastating to a person's career, I would think that people would be extremely judicious in applying it. Yet, from what I can see here, people are quite willing to hand it out like they're handing out candy at a parade.

While there are people on all sides of the issue here, we are not just throwing around the label lightly. This person by his own admission flew struck work knowingly, and in so doing that became a scab by definition. As far as the official title, it's like seeing a horse race, the #3 horse is obviously in front, but the official results are not posted until all circumstances are evaluated.

Part of the reason is that the current generation does not understand the true meaning of scab, and the effects it had during job actions in the early and mid 20th Century.

That being said, it is apparent that people are trying to find way to stop using the word, so that it is not diluted. The Spirit MEC is going to review the case, but it isn't some back room deal. If this guy didn't know on the first leg, I think it could be possible that he would not get the label, but when he knowing flew the second leg, for expedience or fear of losing his job, or because he did not want to get stick at the outstation, he then made a conscious decision to become a scab. He just didn't realize that becoming a scab could be worse than being fired.

 

[jtrain609]

What's with the management plant?

 

[mwflyer]

What's with the management plant?

I was wondering how long it would take for him to be called out. All of his posts so far, have slanted that way.

 

[Bumblebee]

and that's ok, just want to know where he's coming from...

 

[Boris Badenov]

What's with the management plant?

"You would worry less about what other people think of you if you realized how seldom they do" - David Foster Wallace.

I have a hard time swallowing the notion that Management is paying someone to deceive us all on the Interwebs. Call me a rube. They're way too busy deciding how to pump and dump the next IPO.

 

[jtrain609]

"You would worry less about what other people think of you if you realized how seldom they do" - David Foster Wallace.

I have a hard time swallowing the notion that Management is paying someone to deceive us all on the Interwebs. Call me a rube. They're way too busy deciding how to pump and dump the next IPO.

When I say plant, I don't mean that management has actually paid somebody to troll here. Instead I use plant as an analogue for management hack, or ideologue, or sellout, or brown noser, possibly the local management ass kisser.

 

[SurferLucas]

When I say plant, I don't mean that management has actually paid somebody to troll here. Instead I use plant as an analogue for management hack, or ideologue, or sellout, or brown noser, possibly the local management ass kisser.

Sounds like typical union thuggery to me...you'd probably jump off a cliff for your union, wouldn't you JTrain?... (sarcasm obviously)...

He's just that much smarter than all of us and has it all figured out, we just don't know it yet.

 

[CaptBill]

Q&M is fair in his posts and just like many of us, is looking for answers. He is new here and may be perceived a bit as barging in on our little sanctuary; however, I do think he is sincere and brings up some valid points.

Welcome aboard Q&M.


I will give you the same advice I give everybody new to JC: You will learn more (good and bad) from listening than you will from talking, and that goes for all of us.