40 Year Old Career Changer - Looking for Advice

Two suggestions for you: 1. Talk to current students to gauge their experience. It's good to chat with the staff, but you will be a customer first, so talk to customers to find out what they liked and didn't like. 2. Think about where you want to work. If you can transition from student to instructor. It sounds like you're planning to instruct, and if so you will spend more time as a CFI than as a student, so be sure to evaluate every place as a job offer and not just as a place to get yourself to the airlines. Where would you like to make a difference and impart a love of aviation on others? Where do you see yourself doing that the best? What company would you like to help succeed? I don't mean to suggest that this is the only job offer you'll ever get, but if you approach the decision from both the student and instructor perspectives, you will make a better decision.
 
Only thing I could add is the CFI is a pretty specialized rating. If you can find a CFI at your school with a good track record of getting guys through then that's great. You'll have some time to decide on this as you continue thru your training. There are schools out there that really focus on the CFI and getting guys through that. That's all they do. When the time comes you might ask around here about places to go for that. As I recall there is one in Phoenix that was highly recommended.
 
DE727UPS said:
Check out this youtube video:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5bT2UtO4Ig&list=PL9A5YmMmjcl5_ZxKLDcV2rwPY6xE1FDlh


It's the above mentioned flight school owner being interviewed by a prospective pilot. They talk about pricing and program contrasts with ATP. I've been to his place and he's a hands on owner that's been doing it a long time.

Agree with the first class medical comment above. If there is an issue there you want to know before you blow a bunch of money.

ATP is a huge school with a "system" that they don't vary from. Proven track record. They get more hours cause they do time building with two pilots logging the time on one flight. It's legit according to the FAA in a special situation. You could probably "split time" like this at a smaller, more informal, flight school if you found someone to do it with. I see people asking about this from time to time at the SoCal Aviators facebook page.

When considering the small school, though, look at number of planes, number of CFI's, and the owners willingness to work with a guy who wants to go "accelerated" with his training. No reason one can't get a lot done in a shorter time at a smaller school if they are open to it and equipped for it.

The best thing about your situation is, I would presume, the ability to get back into your present career if things don't work out for whatever reason. You worry about your age being an issue but you have an advantage over the young in that this isn't your first career rodeo. How many young guys spend a ton of money on flying, drop out, and end up with a different career? Many, trust me. I'm on this other facebook page called "raising aviation teens" and all they talk about is getting their kids to the airlines ASAP at any cost. ATP looks cheap compared to Riddle. They have little understanding of the history of this career and how it can come to a screeching halt from time to time. And I believe a lot are getting into the career for the money and not for the love of flying.

Best of luck. You did good to post here.
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Thx @DE727UPS @derg
Been out of commission
Found a stow away a few weeks ago
Happy to help
 

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barchaim said:
Timeline: I'm trying to determine at this point how long this will take me. I'm committing to this full time once I start, and ideally (weather and maintenance permitting) I can fly five days a week. If I understand correctly, I'll be paying for rental and instruction up until I get my CFI certification and 250 hours for commercial, and then at the point I can start working as an instructor. I'm really intrigued by the idea of instructing as I am currently an educator.

I've heard that this process from zero to Commercial/CFI cert can take as little as 7 months and up to even a year, depending on my commitment, study habits, availability, maintenance, weather, examination availability, etc. For me time is money as I will be doing this full time, so I want to commit myself to it fully to get back to work as soon as possible. Do people have any insight on how long it will take me to get to my CFI cert based on their experience?
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I'm sure it is possible to be a CFI in 7 months, but most of that is probably out of your control. I had a student wait over 8 months last year due to DPE discontinuances and availability. The situation is somewhat better right now (still not great).

Right now, I would suggest getting the private license first, while you have a job. Probably about $15k these days. It probably won't take much longer than if you were doing it full time, to be honest, if you are flying every weekend day the weather permits. Get the medical, and the private pilot written exam done now. I don't know why this is, but getting students to do the written is one of the hardest things I deal with as an instructor. And the test is not even remotely difficult. I personally won't solo students that have not passed the written.

The hours after you get a private license up until CFI/Commercial can be accomplished a bunch of ways. I mostly did them in gliders (or towing gliders), but flying light sports, being a safety pilot for friends, or flying in friend's airplanes -- it can be a lot cheaper depending on what you want to do and who you know. The light sport CFI only requires 150 hours TT, and that time all counts just the same.

Most importantly, thanks for asking great questions, and I wish you the best of luck!
 
Holy crap, how does anyone pay for flight training today? $185/hr + $75/hr instructor for I assume a single engine Cessna? That's more than instruction in a twin was when I was doing my civilian training.
 
///AMG said:
Holy crap, how does anyone pay for flight training today? $185/hr + $75/hr instructor for I assume a single engine Cessna? That's more than instruction in a twin was when I was doing my civilian training.
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The school I instruct at is $130 dry (roughly another $40/hr fuel) + $80 for instruction and we’re one of the cheaper schools around. I wonder how people pay to do their PPL in a Cirrus.
 
Regarding the question of how long all of this will take, here is a data point for you. Of my last 7 scheduled flights, I had to cancel 5 of them. One due to illness, one due to crosswind exceeding limits, two due to widespread low-IFR without suitable alternates, and one due to a maintenance issue found during preflight. I think it's like the stock market. There will be ups and downs that are hard to forecast. You just know that the more effort you put in sooner, the better off you will be in the long run. I would not bank on being done and employed in 7 months, although I am sure that works out in some cases. Give yourself a flexible end date as far as your financial needs are concerned. For instance, my spouse's income is sufficient for covering all of our expenses as living on 50% has always been our natural state.
 
Beaker said:
Regarding the question of how long all of this will take, here is a data point for you. Of my last 7 scheduled flights, I had to cancel 5 of them. One due to illness, one due to crosswind exceeding limits, two due to widespread low-IFR without suitable alternates, and one due to a maintenance issue found during preflight. I think it's like the stock market. There will be ups and downs that are hard to forecast. You just know that the more effort you put in sooner, the better off you will be in the long run. I would not bank on being done and employed in 7 months, although I am sure that works out in some cases. Give yourself a flexible end date as far as your financial needs are concerned. For instance, my spouse's income is sufficient for covering all of our expenses as living on 50% has always been our natural state.
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This is a fair point, and for those of you reading this in some of the less-year-round-hospitable climates, it's worth noting. The mid-Atlantic and northeast states, and upper midwest can be brutal with the duration of weather conditions adverse to training.

There is an upside to this, too - you will get days where it's just sporty enough to go up and really learn something about wind correction, turbulence, etc - but those days are fewer and far between.

The OP is, I believe, in SoCal where this is less of an issue, although I'm told the marine layer can be a challenge to those without an instrument rating - I have no direct experience out there with it.
 
This thread is what JC is all about, I love it. Welcome to the group, seems like you have the right motivation and perspective and the aviation community will be lucky to gain you within the ranks. Best of luck with it and keep us updated. I live in the San Diego area, if you’re ever down that way let me know!! Any friend of @Screaming_Emu must be good people 🙂
 
///AMG said:
Holy crap, how does anyone pay for flight training today? $185/hr + $75/hr instructor for I assume a single engine Cessna? That's more than instruction in a twin was when I was doing my civilian training.
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I found the old clapped out 172 I soloed in 25 years ago still flying around. It’s moved a couple of states… but now its in New Jersey…. i called up the flight school and on an EWR overnight I went out to go fly the 172 I hadn’t seen in 23 years…. It’s a different color paint now... It’s missing a few avionics boxes… still steam gauge…. Which is goood. Because the last time I flew a 172 was 18 years ago.. it had a g1000 panel and I couldn’t fly the 172 at all….

I flew it with an instructor…. the instructor is 60 something…. CFI for 40+ years…. He has tons of young students all trying to get their hours to get to the airlines while the getting is good….

the 1974 (50-years old!) 172 that I paid $60/hr for 25 years ago goes for $175/hr now.. the instructor went up to $65/hr from $15/hr.

anyways, after the 1.2 hr flight tooling around McGuire in the old 172 I soloed and got my private single engine airplane add on in, I was grinning ear to ear like a kid again…. Reminicing about the fun times I had flying it around solo 25 years ago…. But nope 172s are flying death traps and I don’t think I’ll be doing that again…. Maybe a few more years on another EWR overnight if it’s still flying I’ll go back out and get reacquainted.
 
Hah nice, that's pretty cool! I think my first solo plane is still at the same school, same paint, everything. Don't think I could just rent it out though, not being part of their program. Cool idea though!
 
Glad you asked @Screaming_Emu! Last Thursday I completed my first solo =) Did three practice patterns with the instructor, then did three on my own. It took a long time to get to this point because of weather (stupid marine layer IFR conditions), a bout of Covid in my family, and normal maintenance. But I got here! I'm sitting at about 40'ish hours and just need to complete my check ride which is apparently quite the bottleneck for DPE's. So the whole timeline is going a LOT slower than expected but it's ok! What a thrill to fly on my own for the first time.

I also passed my written exam! 97%, very happy about that and spent a lot of time studying for it.

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Way to go! That's an awesome milestone. I empathize with the training issues. I had to cancel about half of my training flights over the past month and a half due to convective weather (one of the wettest springs on record here). No day goes to waste though; there is always more to study.
 
barchaim said:
Good evening anyone. I'm new to here and it's been recommended to me by "screaming_emu" and "N826AW" to do this. Glad to be a part of this community and can't wait to meet all sorts of new people!

Background - I'm 40 years old looking to get into a career in aviation. I have my bachelor's in atmospheric science and my masters in teaching. For the past 17 years I've been working in public schools in one capacity or another, mostly as a classroom teacher. I just moved down to Ventura County in Southern California and work in a local school district as an education specialist at the district level (11 schools in our district). I'm married for 12 years and have no kids. I have no real world flying experience, just been flight simming since Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0 with its stunning graphics (at least to a six year old).

Goal - My goal is to do a career change into the world of aviation. It was something that I wanted to do when I was 18 and ready to go to college, but for reasons, I was unable to do it. Now at my age, and having the means to do this, it's something I am going to pursue. My wife is genuinely excited for me to do this and pushing me in this direction as she's known it's been in my heart as long as we've been together. It's been something I have known I wanted to do ever since I was six years old, boarding outside up the stairway of a TWA 747 at 1:00 a.m. at JFK airport. It was a surreal experience for my younger self being that small next to something so spectacular. I've spent much time reflecting on whether getting into aviation is right for me and I'm doing it for the right reasons, and I can't seem to convince myself not to.

What I Know - I know that at this point in my career, it's important for me to get a job sooner than later so that I don't completely drain my savings/retirement as well as having a roof over my head and food on the table. This has led me to research what I think are called "accelerated" flight schools. There's one near me that is called ATP that has a pretty good looking program, and both "screaming_emu" and "N826AW" have spoken well on. I also know that it is very pricey. It is also just a 15 minute drive from my residence. One of the appeals to me is their claim to be career driven and get students placed in jobs. Another appeal is the speed of the program, recognizing that it is a full time (or more) program with an expectation to be available seven days a week for the seven months.

There is a second program in the area called Above All Aviation (Above All Aviation). They are a program for about half the price of ATP, claim to take 8 months, and students graduate with fewer hours. I am still gathering more information about their program. It is a 45 minute drive from my residence. The appeal to me would be the price, and I need to learn more about how they work to get their students placed in jobs.

What I Need to Know - So I've had in depth conversations with both "screaming_emu" and "N826AW" about the aviation industry as well as what its like being a career changer. I guess I just want to know anything that people here can share! What do you think about what I'm doing? My timing? Am I nuts for changing careers at 40?

Even more so, as I research flight schools and come to a choice, what are some critical things I should be asking schools when I meet with them? What are some red flags at flight schools? What are things that would make them definite "yes"? What other flight schools in my area should I consider? Why do I look so gosh darn good in these jeans??

Deep down emotionally, it feels like the right thing to do. This is a big life change as well as a big financial investment so I want to do it right, and I feel like this would be the place to get some advice, input, and feedback.

ANYWAYS, thanks for reading my thesis, thanks for welcoming me into your community, and I look forward to reading your responses.

Have a great evening all!
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It's been awhile since I participated in the insanity of providing "academic" instruction to the public, so I have NO idea the severity of the suck these days. Still, if you have background/experience in a real education, and you possess a real and enduring passion for the principles of aviation, you might just make a REALLY GOOD flight instructor.

Well done on your recent accomplishment! Never leave the path of endeavoring to transition the ignorant to the knowledgeable! :)
 
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