40 Year Old Career Changer - Looking for Advice

[barchaim]

Good evening anyone. I'm new to here and it's been recommended to me by "screaming_emu" and "N826AW" to do this. Glad to be a part of this community and can't wait to meet all sorts of new people!

Background - I'm 40 years old looking to get into a career in aviation. I have my bachelor's in atmospheric science and my masters in teaching. For the past 17 years I've been working in public schools in one capacity or another, mostly as a classroom teacher. I just moved down to Ventura County in Southern California and work in a local school district as an education specialist at the district level (11 schools in our district). I'm married for 12 years and have no kids. I have no real world flying experience, just been flight simming since Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0 with its stunning graphics (at least to a six year old).

Goal - My goal is to do a career change into the world of aviation. It was something that I wanted to do when I was 18 and ready to go to college, but for reasons, I was unable to do it. Now at my age, and having the means to do this, it's something I am going to pursue. My wife is genuinely excited for me to do this and pushing me in this direction as she's known it's been in my heart as long as we've been together. It's been something I have known I wanted to do ever since I was six years old, boarding outside up the stairway of a TWA 747 at 1:00 a.m. at JFK airport. It was a surreal experience for my younger self being that small next to something so spectacular. I've spent much time reflecting on whether getting into aviation is right for me and I'm doing it for the right reasons, and I can't seem to convince myself not to.

What I Know - I know that at this point in my career, it's important for me to get a job sooner than later so that I don't completely drain my savings/retirement as well as having a roof over my head and food on the table. This has led me to research what I think are called "accelerated" flight schools. There's one near me that is called ATP that has a pretty good looking program, and both "screaming_emu" and "N826AW" have spoken well on. I also know that it is very pricey. It is also just a 15 minute drive from my residence. One of the appeals to me is their claim to be career driven and get students placed in jobs. Another appeal is the speed of the program, recognizing that it is a full time (or more) program with an expectation to be available seven days a week for the seven months.

There is a second program in the area called Above All Aviation (Above All Aviation). They are a program for about half the price of ATP, claim to take 8 months, and students graduate with fewer hours. I am still gathering more information about their program. It is a 45 minute drive from my residence. The appeal to me would be the price, and I need to learn more about how they work to get their students placed in jobs.

What I Need to Know - So I've had in depth conversations with both "screaming_emu" and "N826AW" about the aviation industry as well as what its like being a career changer. I guess I just want to know anything that people here can share! What do you think about what I'm doing? My timing? Am I nuts for changing careers at 40?

Even more so, as I research flight schools and come to a choice, what are some critical things I should be asking schools when I meet with them? What are some red flags at flight schools? What are things that would make them definite "yes"? What other flight schools in my area should I consider? Why do I look so gosh darn good in these jeans??

Deep down emotionally, it feels like the right thing to do. This is a big life change as well as a big financial investment so I want to do it right, and I feel like this would be the place to get some advice, input, and feedback.

ANYWAYS, thanks for reading my thesis, thanks for welcoming me into your community, and I look forward to reading your responses.

Have a great evening all!

 

[Screaming_Emu]

For everyone here, I’ve known @barchaim for as long as I’ve known most of the long timers here and he’s great people. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[SteveC]

I did the career change to aviation in my early 40’s, just a few years after getting married for the first (and last!) time, with a couple of step-sons thrown into the bargain.

But…that was back around the turn of the century so the details of my experience really don’t translate well to today’s environment. The only input I think might be useful is to make sure you understand the financial requirements for the first five years, have a back-up plan in place, and have full understanding and support from your spouse.

It sounds like you have a good bit of that already in place and are working on the details, in which case I can only wish you the best of luck (luck = preparation + opportunity).

 

[Wardogg]

I too was an early 40s changer. A bit more recent than Steve. I’ll offer you this advice.

#1 go get a 1st class medical before you do anything else. Make sure you can qualify for that.

#2 Do not go into debt to complete training no matter how fast the program. Paying that off makes this job a huge grind.

Anecdotally, A friend of mine that’s the same age as me started ATP in 2017. Finished the course went to work for a regional after completing and getting all his required time. He just got hired at a major last month. That’s a pretty reasonable timeline right now. Barring any black swan events.

If you’re looking to go corporate it’s all about networking. At least for the good jobs.

Have fun and welcome to the skies. To me there is no better job.

 

[derg]

40 isn't anywhere close to "too old" and no, you're not crazy at all.

Agree with Wardogg wholeheartedly about getting a First Class FAA Flight Physical immediately as there might be some things that need to be rectified with the FAA. If there is, it's not the end of the world. Believe me, very few people walk out of a medical, as we age, and give the "me lucky charms" heel kick very often.

Accelerated Programs are great if you've had a lifetime of continuing education and studying. I looked at getting my CFI re-instated, looked at an accelerated syllabus and thought, "Ahh, nevermind" but it was something I didn't need anyway and was for fun. There are also a number of other schools in Los Angeles, make sure you drop @mrivc211 a note as he owns a busy flight school at SNA.

Like I always say, talk to EVERYONE about your ambitions because you never know who is listening.

When you start, do not stop. It will get tough, frustrating and it's just like graduating from high school. The people that do well stay driven and don't get caught up in the concept of "Oh, I'll take a break for a bit", "You know, life happens, we took a month off to hit all the roller coasters around the country" or anything else relatively optional greatly extend the path to their aspirations.


Good luck!

 

[DE727UPS]

Check out this youtube video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5bT2UtO4Ig&list=PL9A5YmMmjcl5_ZxKLDcV2rwPY6xE1FDlh


It's the above mentioned flight school owner being interviewed by a prospective pilot. They talk about pricing and program contrasts with ATP. I've been to his place and he's a hands on owner that's been doing it a long time.

Agree with the first class medical comment above. If there is an issue there you want to know before you blow a bunch of money.

ATP is a huge school with a "system" that they don't vary from. Proven track record. They get more hours cause they do time building with two pilots logging the time on one flight. It's legit according to the FAA in a special situation. You could probably "split time" like this at a smaller, more informal, flight school if you found someone to do it with. I see people asking about this from time to time at the SoCal Aviators facebook page.

When considering the small school, though, look at number of planes, number of CFI's, and the owners willingness to work with a guy who wants to go "accelerated" with his training. No reason one can't get a lot done in a shorter time at a smaller school if they are open to it and equipped for it.

The best thing about your situation is, I would presume, the ability to get back into your present career if things don't work out for whatever reason. You worry about your age being an issue but you have an advantage over the young in that this isn't your first career rodeo. How many young guys spend a ton of money on flying, drop out, and end up with a different career? Many, trust me. I'm on this other facebook page called "raising aviation teens" and all they talk about is getting their kids to the airlines ASAP at any cost. ATP looks cheap compared to Riddle. They have little understanding of the history of this career and how it can come to a screeching halt from time to time. And I believe a lot are getting into the career for the money and not for the love of flying.

Best of luck. You did good to post here.

 

[alaskadrifter]

As someone else mentioned First Class medical first, then knock out PPL written, and do a discovery flight. Accelerated vs traditional really depends on your personal and financial situation.

 

[BrettInLJ]

I am a double career changer having made the move into aviation back in the mid-2000's and the second time after 40. You have already done some of the most important things- asking questions, networking, joining this site. I could not have done what I did without it. I have been flying since I was 17 or 18, getting my PPL through a flying club so wasn't starting "from scratch". I echo the other advice of first getting the medical. Take a look at the medical app on the FAA site and if there is anything you THINK you would be checking the "yes" box on, be sure to get more advice on it before scheduling the AME appointment or submitting any app.

You are right that if this is indeed the path you want to take, going full time in a structured program may be the best. Before going down that expensive path I would recommend first getting your PPL at a Part 61 school or flying club. This will give you a good foundation, help you know for sure that flying is for you, and probably save you some money. You will hopefully learn some things too that you wouldn't otherwise from a large school.

Having support from your significant other is golden and it sounds like you do along with not having to put any kids through college right now. This is not the case for everyone who has successfully made the career transition, so you have that advantage going for you. Their support through the process will help a lot.

I think the most important thing is passion for flying and the career. If you know you have that and feel it still after getting your PPL, go for it! To answer one of your questions, you are not crazy.

 

[Beaker]

Welcome. I am also a 40-year-old career changer, just a few months ahead of you in the process. That does not offer me a very high perch to preach wisdom from, but I will share some of the things I have observed so far.

First, you are not crazy. You have valid reasons for making a change, and many people make course corrections at this point in their lives. Career changes, going back to school, going part time, going full time, and so on are all transitions that grown ups make in all sorts of fields. You know yourself a lot better now, so it's time for you to do you.

It is important to have realistic expectations. I know that I will not retire #1 at a major airline, and I am okay with that. A good career at a major airline or non-airline operator is still within reach, where I define good as having a decent quality of life while meeting my modest financial objectives.

It is good that your spouse is supportive. Take time to educate her on the ins and outs of the aviation training, career, and lifestyle (assuming this is new to her) and include her in the decision making process as you encounter the forks in the road to come. The decisions made in this career affect your spouse more so than in the typical careers people are used to, and that starts with where and how you train.

Go visit all of the places that you might conceivably train at, in person. Do this now. What you see in person might not line up with what you see on a webpage. How do they treat you when you come to discuss training? Can you talk with a flight instructor? Can you see the planes? Do they do maintenance in house? Can you see the maintenance area? Do the planes and maintenance area appear to be well taken care of? Are they annoyed that you are asking these questions? An operation that you want to work with will be transparent and accessible.

Wherever you go, progress during your training comes down to availability of four things: you, your instructor, the airplane, and the sky (meaning weather).

Two of those things are at the mercy of the flight school. Preferably, you will find a school that has good airplane availability due to a strong maintenance program and multiple aircraft of the same type. You also want to find an instructor with availability. In an ideal world, this would be a greybeard with thousands of hours of dual given. In today's market, such a person will have a full schedule and a waiting list, which does not align with your career change schedule. Most likely, you will find a CFI who is building time for the airlines. Make sure this person is invested in being a good CFI on their way up the ladder and it can work well (a judgment call to be made as you talk with them a fly some lessons). You always have the right to try a different instructor, so ask the schools that you visit how that would work, if needed.

Rod Machado's website has some info on things to think about when choosing a flight school.
Rod Machado: how to choose a flight instructor

The reason to visit schools now is that there may be a waiting list at several of them, as was the case in my metro area (not LA). This is a factor to consider as you make your choice. If the one you want has a list, you can put your name down while you make other preparations.

Get the first class medical before you make any irrevocable decisions like rage quitting your job or forking over a deposit to a flight school. Like others have said, do your research before you go. At 40 you might have a medical thing or two that your doctor tracks. Make sure you understand what the FAA thinks about those things so that you can put your best foot forward. Consulting with an online service that specializes in helping pilots with FAA medical certification can help with this (I forgot their name but others here would know). Go to the AME in your area that has a good reputation among pilots for dealing with the FAA and handling special issuance situations. If your situation happens to require deferral to the FAA, it could take several months to get the medical. So this is another process you want to start working through ASAP.

On the subject of the medical, start taking care of yourself if you do not do so already. Exercise, diet, sleep, the whole nine yards. Do this as if your life depended on it, because it does. By 40 we all know someone who has had a serious life curve ball due to a random health disaster. We cannot eliminate this risk, but we can reduce it through our lifestyle choices. This is even more important for pilots whose career is directly tied to health condition.

Also figure out how you are going to manage your finances over the next couple of years as you go through training and building time for a decent paying job. You do not want to be stressed about money while you are also trying to learn a whole new vocation. At 40 you probably have some options between savings and financing. Since you do not have kids, moving to a lower cost of living area could even be part of it. Come up with a solid plan that has margin and spousal buy-in. This is another thing to do before any irrevocable decisions are made.

Start studying now. You can get some study books and video training materials for a few hundred dollars, and/or look at the free training publications put on the FAA website in pdf form. None of it is too complicated, but there is a large volume of material to internalize. You can help yourself by starting now as you work through the medical and flight school waiting list issues, if they arise for you.

And I'm spent. Best of luck!

 

[SteveC]

Welcome. I am also a 40-year-old career changer, just a few months ahead of you in the process. That does not offer me a very high perch to preach wisdom from, but I will share some of the things I have observed so far.

First, you are not crazy. You have valid reasons for making a change, and many people make course corrections at this point in their lives. Career changes, going back to school, going part time, going full time, and so on are all transitions that grown ups make in all sorts of fields. You know yourself a lot better now, so it's time for you to do you.

It is important to have realistic expectations. I know that I will not retire #1 at a major airline, and I am okay with that. A good career at a major airline or non-airline operator is still within reach, where I define good as having a decent quality of life while meeting my modest financial objectives.

It is good that your spouse is supportive. Take time to educate her on the ins and outs of the aviation training, career, and lifestyle (assuming this is new to her) and include her in the decision making process as you encounter the forks in the road to come. The decisions made in this career affect your spouse more so than in the typical careers people are used to, and that starts with where and how you train.

Go visit all of the places that you might conceivably train at, in person. Do this now. What you see in person might not line up with what you see on a webpage. How do they treat you when you come to discuss training? Can you talk with a flight instructor? Can you see the planes? Do they do maintenance in house? Can you see the maintenance area? Do the planes and maintenance area appear to be well taken care of? Are they annoyed that you are asking these questions? An operation that you want to work with will be transparent and accessible.

Wherever you go, progress during your training comes down to availability of four things: you, your instructor, the airplane, and the sky (meaning weather).

Two of those things are at the mercy of the flight school. Preferably, you will find a school that has good airplane availability due to a strong maintenance program and multiple aircraft of the same type. You also want to find an instructor with availability. In an ideal world, this would be a greybeard with thousands of hours of dual given. In today's market, such a person will have a full schedule and a waiting list, which does not align with your career change schedule. Most likely, you will find a CFI who is building time for the airlines. Make sure this person is invested in being a good CFI on their way up the ladder and it can work well (a judgment call to be made as you talk with them a fly some lessons). You always have the right to try a different instructor, so ask the schools that you visit how that would work, if needed.

Rod Machado's website has some info on things to think about when choosing a flight school.
Rod Machado: how to choose a flight instructor

The reason to visit schools now is that there may be a waiting list at several of them, as was the case in my metro area (not LA). This is a factor to consider as you make your choice. If the one you want has a list, you can put your name down while you make other preparations.

Get the first class medical before you make any irrevocable decisions like rage quitting your job or forking over a deposit to a flight school. Like others have said, do your research before you go. At 40 you might have a medical thing or two that your doctor tracks. Make sure you understand what the FAA thinks about those things so that you can put your best foot forward. Consulting with an online service that specializes in helping pilots with FAA medical certification can help with this (I forgot their name but others here would know). Go to the AME in your area that has a good reputation among pilots for dealing with the FAA and handling special issuance situations. If your situation happens to require deferral to the FAA, it could take several months to get the medical. So this is another process you want to start working through ASAP.

On the subject of the medical, start taking care of yourself if you do not do so already. Exercise, diet, sleep, the whole nine yards. Do this as if your life depended on it, because it does. By 40 we all know someone who has had a serious life curve ball due to a random health disaster. We cannot eliminate this risk, but we can reduce it through our lifestyle choices. This is even more important for pilots whose career is directly tied to health condition.

Also figure out how you are going to manage your finances over the next couple of years as you go through training and building time for a decent paying job. You do not want to be stressed about money while you are also trying to learn a whole new vocation. At 40 you probably have some options between savings and financing. Since you do not have kids, moving to a lower cost of living area could even be part of it. Come up with a solid plan that has margin and spousal buy-in. This is another thing to do before any irrevocable decisions are made.

Start studying now. You can get some study books and video training materials for a few hundred dollars, and/or look at the free training publications put on the FAA website in pdf form. None of it is too complicated, but there is a large volume of material to internalize. You can help yourself by starting now as you work through the medical and flight school waiting list issues, if they arise for you.

And I'm spent. Best of luck!

Awesome post.

@derg

 

[milleR]

@killbilly you have some relevant experience in this area

 

[DE727UPS]

Welcome. I am also a 40-year-old career changer, just a few months ahead of you in the process. That does not offer me a very high perch to preach wisdom from, but I will share some of the things I have observed so far.

First, you are not crazy. You have valid reasons for making a change, and many people make course corrections at this point in their lives. Career changes, going back to school, going part time, going full time, and so on are all transitions that grown ups make in all sorts of fields. You know yourself a lot better now, so it's time for you to do you.

It is important to have realistic expectations. I know that I will not retire #1 at a major airline, and I am okay with that. A good career at a major airline or non-airline operator is still within reach, where I define good as having a decent quality of life while meeting my modest financial objectives.

It is good that your spouse is supportive. Take time to educate her on the ins and outs of the aviation training, career, and lifestyle (assuming this is new to her) and include her in the decision making process as you encounter the forks in the road to come. The decisions made in this career affect your spouse more so than in the typical careers people are used to, and that starts with where and how you train.

Go visit all of the places that you might conceivably train at, in person. Do this now. What you see in person might not line up with what you see on a webpage. How do they treat you when you come to discuss training? Can you talk with a flight instructor? Can you see the planes? Do they do maintenance in house? Can you see the maintenance area? Do the planes and maintenance area appear to be well taken care of? Are they annoyed that you are asking these questions? An operation that you want to work with will be transparent and accessible.

Wherever you go, progress during your training comes down to availability of four things: you, your instructor, the airplane, and the sky (meaning weather).

Two of those things are at the mercy of the flight school. Preferably, you will find a school that has good airplane availability due to a strong maintenance program and multiple aircraft of the same type. You also want to find an instructor with availability. In an ideal world, this would be a greybeard with thousands of hours of dual given. In today's market, such a person will have a full schedule and a waiting list, which does not align with your career change schedule. Most likely, you will find a CFI who is building time for the airlines. Make sure this person is invested in being a good CFI on their way up the ladder and it can work well (a judgment call to be made as you talk with them a fly some lessons). You always have the right to try a different instructor, so ask the schools that you visit how that would work, if needed.

Rod Machado's website has some info on things to think about when choosing a flight school.
Rod Machado: how to choose a flight instructor

The reason to visit schools now is that there may be a waiting list at several of them, as was the case in my metro area (not LA). This is a factor to consider as you make your choice. If the one you want has a list, you can put your name down while you make other preparations.

Get the first class medical before you make any irrevocable decisions like rage quitting your job or forking over a deposit to a flight school. Like others have said, do your research before you go. At 40 you might have a medical thing or two that your doctor tracks. Make sure you understand what the FAA thinks about those things so that you can put your best foot forward. Consulting with an online service that specializes in helping pilots with FAA medical certification can help with this (I forgot their name but others here would know). Go to the AME in your area that has a good reputation among pilots for dealing with the FAA and handling special issuance situations. If your situation happens to require deferral to the FAA, it could take several months to get the medical. So this is another process you want to start working through ASAP.

On the subject of the medical, start taking care of yourself if you do not do so already. Exercise, diet, sleep, the whole nine yards. Do this as if your life depended on it, because it does. By 40 we all know someone who has had a serious life curve ball due to a random health disaster. We cannot eliminate this risk, but we can reduce it through our lifestyle choices. This is even more important for pilots whose career is directly tied to health condition.

Also figure out how you are going to manage your finances over the next couple of years as you go through training and building time for a decent paying job. You do not want to be stressed about money while you are also trying to learn a whole new vocation. At 40 you probably have some options between savings and financing. Since you do not have kids, moving to a lower cost of living area could even be part of it. Come up with a solid plan that has margin and spousal buy-in. This is another thing to do before any irrevocable decisions are made.

Start studying now. You can get some study books and video training materials for a few hundred dollars, and/or look at the free training publications put on the FAA website in pdf form. None of it is too complicated, but there is a large volume of material to internalize. You can help yourself by starting now as you work through the medical and flight school waiting list issues, if they arise for you.

And I'm spent. Best of luck!

This is such a good post. I reread it like three times trying to find something to add. I'm speechless. Which is sorta rare.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

@killbilly you have some relevant experience in this area

He was one of the first two people I suggested he contact.

 

[BuzzyBizi]

Hi all. First forum post - recently joined. I'm also in a similar boat to @barchaim but with different experience (slightly plagiarizing your format too!)

Background - I'm 42 years old looking to get into a career in aviation. I have my bachelor's in Physics + Economics (major), Mathematics (minor) and my masters in Acoustic Engineering. For the past 19 years I've been working as a consulting engineer with a focus on acoustic and audiovisual design. You may have seen some of my projects (and experienced them) like Sphere in Las Vegas, the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Cultural Center in Athens, Greece, and Arkansas Museum of Fine Arts in Little Rock, AR. I am skilled in team leadership, communication, business development, and commercial performance. I live in Chicagoland area (work downtown). I'm married for 11 years and have no kids - just a golden retriever.

I have a fair amount of real world flying experience but I don't fit the 'mold' of what many are looking for. Total time of 685 hrs w/500 hours of cross country logged. A majority of my flight time (465 hrs) is multi-engine time with 400 of that in a Cessna 310Q. I have my commercial multi-engine certificate and am instrument rated. I have a first class medical appt next week but don't see any issue obtaining it as I've done 2nd class for many years. You can check out some of my aviation adventures on my YouTube channel (although it has been a while since I've made new content, still is relevant). https://www.youtube.com/betweenlayersaviation

Goal - I am considering a career change into the world of aviation. I know a few things that I don't want to do in aviation at this stage of my life

• I don't want to do flight instruction. I'm a good teacher/mentor, but it isn't attractive to me at this stage in my life.
• I don't want to take a pay cut that puts me at $30k a year (or something like that). I realize that in all likelihood my current salary will be reduced. I'm in the $150k - $175k annual salary range now.

I'm flexible for the type of operator I would work for. I'm not 'dead set' on a major airline at this time. Given my exposure to general aviation, the 'small' airports are a lot of fun and it is lovely to see the world that way.

Still understanding the landscape of how many days away I would be a months (or for what stretch) from my 'home base' to realize how it would impact my wife/our relationship/dog care (she also travels frequently for work).

What I Need to Know / Where I could use your help - I also just want to know anything that people here can share about this move! What type of immediate opportunities could be out there for someone with my level of experience? I'm happy to send my resume for anyone that may be interested and chat directly more as well.

 

[mikecweb]

Nothing to add as I'm not a career changer and have been out of the flight training world for a decade, but I love this thread. THIS is what this website is all about and it is no surprise that @Screaming_Emu had his hand in it.

Good luck to all, it's a great time to be a pilot.

 

[DE727UPS]

The airlines are out due to your total time. Being under 500 hours, even 1000 hours, restricts opportunities and especially pay. Corporate sounds like the way to go but your low time is still going to be an issue. The bright side is with your other skills and abilities, which are proven, a company that does things you have experience in or can manage could easily overlook your low times if you were willing to not just be a pilot. Plus your location near a large city with all it's industry is a benefit. That leaves the big question being would you be willing to work as "not just a pilot". You will be looking for a very niche opportunity and it will be hard to find the right fit, I would think, but surely they are out there.

I would join bizjetjobs.com It's a website where corporations put job listings. Most of the companies I've never heard of but you might run across one where you have an acquaintance or that has work that's up your alley. It would likely be a smaller company where the owner could go to the flight dept and say "hey, can you hire this guy as a pilot, we can use him for other stuff"

Most of us pilots really aren't that smart but we're good at flying planes...haha.

 

[Beaker]

• I don't want to do flight instruction. I'm a good teacher/mentor, but it isn't attractive to me at this stage in my life.
• I don't want to take a pay cut that puts me at $30k a year (or something like that). I realize that in all likelihood my current salary will be reduced. I'm in the $150k - $175k annual salary range now.

As 40-something career changers, we are going from being experts in a field to being inexperienced again. A mistake that inexperienced people can make is being too selective in what they will and will not do. Looking back, I can see that I indulged in this folly as a young engineer. I was focused on aerospace and turned down opportunities for internships and projects in other applications that in hindsight would have been fantastic experience. Experience that would have advanced my ability to pursue future opportunities, including those in my preferred field of aerospace.

Consider this thought experiment. You know someone who is interested in becoming an audiovisual design engineer. This person has absolutely no professional experience in the field. Zilch. Nada. But he or she has been doing it as a hobby for several years. You think this person has potential, so you give them an opportunity to assist you on your next project at a Las Vegas venue for a salary of $40k. Then that person turns you down, saying they need $100k and will only work on museums. You might shake your head a little to this response, right? Working the project would have provided the experience and track record that person needed to make the next step towards what they actually want. By turning it down, they are left in the position of waiting for that perfect situation to come along, which of course may never happen.

All that to say don't limit yourself. You have a great starting point with all of that multi XC time. Way ahead of me, that's for sure! And I totally get that you do not want to be a career instructor, or a career anything else that limits you to $30k-40k a year. But wouldn't it make sense to do some of those low time jobs on a short-term basis, to rapidly advance your experience level to the point where you can go after what you really want? Otherwise you may find yourself stuck in the Waiting Place. And as Dr. Seuss taught us, that's no place for you.

 

[BuzzyBizi]

As 40-something career changers, we are going from being experts in a field to being inexperienced again. A mistake that inexperienced people can make is being too selective in what they will and will not do. Looking back, I can see that I indulged in this folly as a young engineer....

And I totally get that you do not want to be a career instructor, or a career anything else that limits you to $30k-40k a year. But wouldn't it make sense to do some of those low time jobs on a short-term basis, to rapidly advance your experience level to the point where you can go after what you really want? Otherwise you may find yourself stuck in the Waiting Place. And as Dr. Seuss taught us, that's no place for you.

All good points and much appreciate the thoughtful response. Maybe I need to consider more of a 'weekend warrior' position or take out a loan to buy 100 hours in a C-172 / yr and just fly it like I stole it for a few years. Figuring it all out and seeing what shoe might fit (or not for the short term).

 

[Screaming_Emu]

As 40-something career changers, we are going from being experts in a field to being inexperienced again. A mistake that inexperienced people can make is being too selective in what they will and will not do. Looking back, I can see that I indulged in this folly as a young engineer. I was focused on aerospace and turned down opportunities for internships and projects in other applications that in hindsight would have been fantastic experience. Experience that would have advanced my ability to pursue future opportunities, including those in my preferred field of aerospace.

Consider this thought experiment. You know someone who is interested in becoming an audiovisual design engineer. This person has absolutely no professional experience in the field. Zilch. Nada. But he or she has been doing it as a hobby for several years. You think this person has potential, so you give them an opportunity to assist you on your next project at a Las Vegas venue for a salary of $40k. Then that person turns you down, saying they need $100k and will only work on museums. You might shake your head a little to this response, right? Working the project would have provided the experience and track record that person needed to make the next step towards what they actually want. By turning it down, they are left in the position of waiting for that perfect situation to come along, which of course may never happen.

All that to say don't limit yourself. You have a great starting point with all of that multi XC time. Way ahead of me, that's for sure! And I totally get that you do not want to be a career instructor, or a career anything else that limits you to $30k-40k a year. But wouldn't it make sense to do some of those low time jobs on a short-term basis, to rapidly advance your experience level to the point where you can go after what you really want? Otherwise you may find yourself stuck in the Waiting Place. And as Dr. Seuss taught us, that's no place for you.

I will also note that while I’ve flown with many career changers who were fantastic, there are also a lot that seem more in love with the idea of being seen as a pilot and less the actual work.

They’re the ones strutting the terminal in their uniform when they could be helping the rest of the crew prep for the next flight. They’ll stand in the galley during boarding because they crave attention, then act surprised that you didn’t do their job for them when they get up to the cockpit.

Don’t do those things. Be humble, work hard, and know that most people don’t care that you’re a pilot.

 

[barchaim]

Thank you everybody for the insight! Lots of good things for me to consider and share with my family as well. I've taken a lot of time and it seems now that my next steps are:

• What flight school will I go to?
• How long can I expect this to take?
• Next Steps?

Flight schools: I visited three flight schools and expressed interest in a fourth.

First one I visited was All Above Aviation (Above All Aviation). I went in person and they were phenomenally friendly, gave me all the time I wanted, and asked all my questions. I met the owner and had a great chat with him, as well as their instructors and maintenance team. They had a mixed fleet of older and newer aircraft, as well as steam gauge vs. glass panels. Great pricing. Long commute. It's at a Class C airport.

Second school I visited will remain unnamed in an effort not to speak poorly on them by name. My gut reaction was an instant no. They didn't seem interested in me as a potential student when I walked in even though they told me to come visit. They just didn't seem to have the time to answer my questions and were genuinely uninterested. I only stayed for about 15 minutes talking to one of the instructors, but they wouldn't give me a tour. The owner was honestly kind of "brash" and a bit odd. Good pricing, short commute, big fleet, but I just got bad vibes from them and my wife always tells me to trust my gut.

Third school I visited was Camarillo Flight Instruction (Camarillo Flight Instruction & Aircraft Rental – Learn to Fly). Also got great vibes from them, they spent all the time I needed to answer all my questions, meet instructors, meet students, and see their fleet. Didn't have a chance to meet the owner the day I visited. They have a good mix of planes that are newer; their oldest plane is a 2000. Also mixed between steam gauge and glass panels. Their pricing is also great for my needs and the commute is 13 minute. It's at a Class D airport.

The other big one around here is ATP. I haven't visited them yet but it may already be out of the picture for me for a number of reasons. (1) I reached out to them twice in the last ten days and I still haven't heard from them. (2) The price is significantly higher than other programs. (3) I've been told it's a one size fits all in terms of instruction and flexible training in terms of needs of students, and that is a turn off for me. (4) I get the feeling that they're more of a business and pilot mill sometimes than they are a flight school. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I've heard a number of stories of people who had a tough time at ATP and didn't have their needs met, and that anecdotal evidence has been red flaggy for me. The advantage of a program like ATP over others is their career services, but I think I can deal with that at another flight school down the line. If I do hear from them in the next week or two and I can arrange a visit, I'll still visit, but I'm definitely leaning away from their program at this moment.

When it comes down to it, I am definitely leaning towards the Camarillo Flight Instruction school. It's a short commute for me, the pricing is reasonable, their staff was very friendly and helpful, and their fleet (and simulator) looked like a good fit. If I lived in Santa Barbara County, the flight school there would be a great pick for me as well. Currently that commute is pretty serious, and the owner there even mentioned it to me too.

Timeline: I'm trying to determine at this point how long this will take me. I'm committing to this full time once I start, and ideally (weather and maintenance permitting) I can fly five days a week. If I understand correctly, I'll be paying for rental and instruction up until I get my CFI certification and 250 hours for commercial, and then at the point I can start working as an instructor. I'm really intrigued by the idea of instructing as I am currently an educator.

I've heard that this process from zero to Commercial/CFI cert can take as little as 7 months and up to even a year, depending on my commitment, study habits, availability, maintenance, weather, examination availability, etc. For me time is money as I will be doing this full time, so I want to commit myself to it fully to get back to work as soon as possible. Do people have any insight on how long it will take me to get to my CFI cert based on their experience?

Next Steps: Every school I spoke to said they work with new students to get their medical right away, and most replies here on this thread said to get on that right away. I also think I'll treat myself to a discovery flight in the coming weeks as my bday is coming up. Now it's just time to coordinate with my wife, figure out our finances, and really make sure that this is the finalized correct decision for us to have me turn to a career in aviation. Once I think I'm ready and taken any new insight here and from people I've spoken to, I'll pick a flight school and start scheduling out lessons.

Again, thank you everyone for your support, insight, and experiences! Have a great day.