Frustrated and wanting to quit.

[mattc206]

Coming to these fourms, reading the posts, peoples trials and then successes, pictures, are always a inspiration to me when I need a little boost, and thank you to everyone for that, but now I am just needing some advice, guidance, whatever, inspiration because I am so freaking frustrated right now I am ready to pack up the car and leave right now.

I will start my saying I am a Flight Instructor, and I work at a smaller school, Have been a FI for 6 months now and all I have to show for it is 105 hours AS A FULL TIME INSTRUCTOR/CHARTER PILOT 85 dual given, 20 on charters, thats $2100 in flight pay, thank god for the bank of mom and dad or else I would of been home less long ago.

The main issue that is eating me right now is the school and management in which I am employed with, I joined them as soon as I finished my instructor training in August, and in the end of September, our school hired a new Chief Flight Instructor, The first incident happened on the new Chief's first day- he flew with a student of mine and ended up yelling and cutting the student off when the student was trying to explain something to him, after the debrief was finished I took the Chief Instructor into the Owners office and explain I did not like how he my student and told him in my opinion it was unprofessional and it could of been handled in a different manner, I did this politely, directly and in a professional manner.

The next incident happend 2 weeks later, I got in from a flight and was doing paperwork for dispatch before going to go debrief my student, at my school we have 2 policies- No talking about students in front of other students, it has to be behind closed doors, and 2- no hanging out in the dispatch area- take it elsewhere, Anyways, I am in the dispatch area when this happend, quickly filling out the log book and the Chief FI approached me and asked me about a flight I did 2 weeks prior and then preceded to debate with me about it, at this time my student had to get going soon and I had to debrief him, So i said to the chief instructor "I'm just about to go debrief a student, can we talk about this when I am done?" the Chief FI precded to yell at me "You are a smart ass and if I had it my way you would not work here" and walked out of the dispatch office and slammed the door, this all happend in front of students and staff. I phoned the owner and my chief pilot that night.

We have a small instructional staff here- 3 full time instructors, 2 management instructors, 1 DPE that is Part time. The 3 full-time instructors are very pissed off right now with management because of many issues relating to the Chief FI- scheduling, pay cuts, paperwork problems, students not wanting to fly with the Chief FI, customers leaving training here and going elsewhere to train as a result of confrontations with the Chief FI, the Chief FI not doing the duties he is required to, etc, and we have told the owners we NEED to meet with them about this, and the owners have completely avoided the issue, they schedule staff meetings from 0900-0930 every few months and then have instructors briefing at 0930, when the owners KNOW full well the FI's have alot to say, and when we are actually meeting the owners just talk about non-relevant subjects like aircrafts, etc and they dont give us a chance to address the issues we have concerns about, the 3 full time instructors are united in our concerns regarding everything, and I myself cant bring it up because its well known that the Chief FI and I are professional and polite to each other and it ends their- if I went to the owners with all of our concerns it would look like a witch hunt on my part. Their also has been occasions where the Chief FI has tried to tell instructors to do something that would be contradictory to our Operations manual and company policy, to which we say NO we will not do that, its against our ops manual, this shows that the Chief FI does not know this manual which is of concern, since he is supposed to be running the school based on the policies and procedures that are in that manual.

In addition to all this, the Chief FI has threatened the flying and employment of all 3 full time instructors here, and has done it in front of staff and customers.

My dialemma is, now that the instructors know all of our concerns, and that we have told the owners we need to meet with them, but been avoided and rebuffed on our requests, the other 2 instructors are afraid of bringing the concerns and issues to the owners, I am not afraid of this, but like I said because of my history, it would not look good on me if I did this alone.

The latest incident involved vacation time, I talked to management (Owners, Chief FI, Chief Pilot) about some days off, and they OK'd it, so once I booked the vacation I sent a email to them all saying I will be gone these days, the next day the chief FI and I marked these days off in his calender in his office and he was fine with the days I had requested and had been approved for, and then on friday the next day, the Chief FI took me into his office and asked me why I had not consulted with him on the days I had requested off, :banghead: the day before we marked the requested and approved days off in his calender and he told me they were fine!!!

The owner and the Chief FI are buds, they are drinking and golfing buds, we call it the 10 second rule- you cant be in the Owners office for more then 15 seconds before the Chief FI comes in with some excuse to listen to what your talking to the owner about, he even brings the owner lunch and booze, totally sucking up to him, and its known among the staff that the owners wife does not like the new Chief FI, who likes to say sexist and rude comments all the time.

Now getting to the root of all of this, I am simply unhappy here, all I have to show for 6 months of "full time" work is $2100, and 105 hours, when all my other FI friends at similar schools are averaging 35-40 hours a month, the issues that we have with the Chief FI havent improved, they have gotten worse, and new ones are being brought up by the week, but the other 2 FI's simply dont want to bring them to the owners, when I first started instructing I loved coming to work, now I dread it, the flying itself is the best part of my day and I very much enjoy instructing but the work environment is toxic. I am getting very very frustrated and I just want to pack up and leave, I have cleaned up my place and my car, everything I own fits in my car and it can be packed in a hour, everything is already in boxes anyways (never unpacked lol) but with the economy, no other schools seem to be hiring yet. I cant sleep, well 3-4 hours the last 2 weeks, I am just not tired, I am so frustrated and pissed off about this.

Believe you me, I try to be happy about coming here, but I am now to the point of coming in, doing my best job for my students, and going home and try to not let myself get caught up in the work politics. But I am just getting to my wits end here and dont know what to do, I have been unhappy here since October but am trying to make the best of it, but it is hard, because I am tired of dreading going to work, I want to enjoy my work.

Thanks for listening to my rant

 

[Propilot]

When all else fails, vote with your feet. Your parents are already pretty much supplementing you. Quit, move back in with them while you look for another job.


Hilsboro Aviation in Portland is looking for CFIs. Its a huge, professionally run school (not to mention 135 charter company) with good people.

Other options are out there too, especially if you are mobile like you said you are.


Don't feel bad about leaving either.

 

[SteveC]

Get your resume out and go somewhere else.

It sounds to me like you've done more than enough to address the problem, and it isn't going to be resolved by anything that you can do. If you push it too hard you'll end up getting fired, and you don't need that on your record if you can help it.

Keep a low profile and find work somewhere else. Don't tell anyone there that you're looking. Don't threaten to leave. Don't argue with the boss. Don't try to prove to them how screwed up they are. Just go find another job.

 

[jrh]

Quit. Leave. Saying "no" to something can be the most freeing feeling ever. Just walk away. You're not getting paid, flying, or having much fun, so why stick around? Even if you don't have another job lined up, I'd still get out. Another opportunity will come up somewhere. You won't starve.

 

[Cessna414JJB]

Get your resume out and go somewhere else.

It sounds to me like you've done more than enough to address the problem, and it isn't going to be resolved by anything that you can do. If you push it too hard you'll end up getting fired, and you don't need that on your record if you can help it.

Keep a low profile and find work somewhere else. Don't tell anyone there that you're looking. Don't threaten to leave. Don't argue with the boss. Don't try to prove to them how screwed up they are. Just go find another job.

:yeahthat: with not much to add. The important thing is to remain as professional as possible. Let others do the yelling, never do it yourself.
Keep your desk as clean as possible, and apply basic courtesy when communicating with any person that does not do so with you. Its a small industry and what you say or do today can affect you 10 years down the road. If you decide to leave, do it without the big stink.

Cheers,

 

[XLR99]

:yeahthat: with not much to add. The important thing is to remain as professional as possible. Let others do the yelling, never do it yourself.
Keep your desk as clean as possible, and apply basic courtesy when communicating with any person that does not do so with you. Its a small industry and what you say or do today can affect you 10 years down the road. If you decide to leave, do it without the big stink.

Cheers,

+1- the total lack of professionalism and customer service at many FBOs and flight schools just appalls me. They truly are their own worst enemy. I wonder how long those customers will keep coming back after seeing CFIs getting smacked down?
Just keep it clean and professional, be prepared to depart for good about 12sec. after telling them you're moving on, walk away and don't look back. I'm kind of divided on giving notice to these kind of establishments, but it is the more professional way to resign. Usually they just tell you to leave right away, which is fine.

 

[Cessna414JJB]

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1>
Last edited by SteveC; Today at 09:56. Reason: fixed my spelling

Uuuups. Could you fix mine too?

+1- the total lack of professionalism and customer service at many FBOs and flight schools just appalls me.

Everything we do and say, or don't do and won't say in this business will eventually come full circle. We must have all had our fair share of lousy flightschools and FBO's and what matters the most is that the lousiest person/ business you have ever met in this industry had at least one good thing about him/ her/ it. People cannot get out of their skin. Being calm when the "Chief Cahuna" has an anxiety attack and quietly looking for something else is the best you can do. This is all about your students and you.

One of the big problems we may also have is that many CFI's and FBO's want to run a good business but feel as if their days are already counted anyways. When problems arise- they are quick to revert to "this is just a hobby" attitude which effectively removes all professional expectations from your customers/ employees minds. Never do that- and remain professional at all times and you will be fine. Everything comes full circle.

Cheers,

 

[KTRN]

Sorry to hear about your situation. Like others have said, just quit & move back to your parents & look for another job. Life sucks sometimes but it will get better after you get out of that toxic environment. Good luck to you & hope you find something you that you'll enjoy.

Katie

 

[falconvalley]

The one common trait I have noticed with bad bosses is they tend to not listen when you're being the most professional. So, you're kinda stuck in that regard. They'll only listen if you're unprofessional in the way you speak to them and they'll definitely remember the unprofessional part.

I've found the only way to bring sore topics up with those folks is to keep it short and sweet and give them a choice. I will usually put it in the form of a question. In your case, I would've waited until a quiet moment (don't immediately take them to an office, that's too obvious for their ego) and asked, "Do you think (student pilot) was a little upset after that flight?" And let them talk at that point. Not much else you can do, but bring it to their attention innocently. If you question your bad boss themself, they'll cry insubordination.

If I were you I'd quit and send your students to a much more deserving flight school.

 

[kellwolf]

$2100 in six months for that kind of abuse. Personally, I woulda been gone a long time ago. You'd get treated better and make more $$$ slinging fries at McDonald's. Just b/c it's a flying job doesn't mean you have to put up with that kind of crap.

 

[skydog]

Forget the Chief Flight Instructor. Clearly this job is not meeting your financial needs. If it were any other job, you'd likely have quit long ago. But because it is a flying job you put with it? Just about any other job wil pay you more than what you've made at the FBO, so go get one

Regarding the problems with your Chief: Some people are miserable #########s, and some miserable #########s are bosses. Sounds to me like he is very insecure in his job and in himself, and therefore feels the need to belittle his subordinates in order to feel better about himself. Unfortunately, he's the owner's buddy, so if something has to go, it ain't gonna be him.

The way I see it, the only control you have over the situation is the time and manner of your departure. Don't let them take that from you.

 

[ozone]

Having just left a job myself i would agree with SteveC....keep a low profile and be as nice and friendly to everyone as you can. After you leave, all people will remember is how the last few weeks went, not how the last 6 months went. Perhaps a wee bit of fake sucking up can help as well: goto the chief CFI about something mundane and ask his/her advice and that sort of thing...that way you might have a chance of decent reviews when you leave.

Also, when it comes time to give notice....GIVE NOTICE!!! At my old job, one of the employees just didn't show up one day and she is now uniformly hated by all the other employees. People dont forget stuff like that, ever.

And finally: remember that you cannot control what other people do at your job, you can only control how professional and calm you act in response. From your post, I gather you already know that though.

 

[minitour]

Run, don't walk.

-mini

 

[Cessna414JJB]

The one common trait I have noticed with bad bosses is they tend to not listen when you're being the most professional. So, you're kinda stuck in that regard. They'll only listen if you're unprofessional in the way you speak to them and they'll definitely remember the unprofessional part.

I've found the only way to bring sore topics up with those folks is to keep it short and sweet and give them a choice. I will usually put it in the form of a question.

+ 1, questions tend to calm people down. It gives them the impression you actually listen and care. Shooting right back is barely the right move in any situation. You cannot change people, so you are really stuck with working with what they want to put on display. If what you find on their side is unacceptable you have no choice but to move. Yet, doing it on your terms is better than on theirs.

If everyone shouted that they could be flipping burgers at McD for the same amount of money with half the abuse, why would the level professionalism ever change? If I employed a CFI in tough times and heard that sentence I would feel mad too. What you see in yourself is what others see in you. If someone truly believes being a CFI is just one notch above McD's - that person may be misplaced in any professional capacity. McD's is also almost always hiring. Maybe a "career change" is in order?

 

[Itchy]

 

[granlistillo]

that way you might have a chance of decent reviews when you leave.

Also, when it comes time to give notice....GIVE NOTICE!!! At my old job, one of the employees just didn't show up one day and she is now uniformly hated by all the other employees. People dont forget stuff like that, ever.

And finally: remember that you cannot control what other people do at your job, you can only control how professional and calm you act in response. From your post, I gather you already know that though.

Based on your post, I would not have any expectations that this individual will give you any positive recommendation. A classless individual will not do so. As far as giving notice, you have no obligation to put up with abuse and a degrading, unprofessional atmosphere. If it comes up in a job interview, tell the truth as succintly as possible (few hours, not enough pay) without badmouthing the employer.

 

[wrxpilot]

Leave. That's just ridiculous, I wouldn't put up with that crap for a second.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Make like a tree and leaf.
Make like a banana and split.
Make like a baby and head out.

 

[SFCC/UND]

Do what I just did, get a job at a car dealership. A lot more benefits and good pay.

 

[ElyJs]

You are not making enough money. Leave.

If there are not enough students in the area to support full time flight instruction you will need to pick up another job or change your area. No one should work for less than $1000/mo no matter what you do. If you have to work another job and then flight instruct on the weekends or have your students adjust to your work schedule then so be it.