This career rocks man, seriously.

You know I have to agree with the plannning argument here. I remember looking very closely at what it would take to get to the airlines 2 years ago and saying to myself "Damn with the way things are right now I could be an airline pilot in 9 months if I just drop $55,000 pretty much guaranteed!!!!" Man that was so damn tempting. In essence I could have my dream in 9 months of time. Well after looking at the financial numbers of that I couldn't beleive anyone was going to ATP and paying loan payments of $500-$700 a month on a 20k a year salary. After tax that works out to be about $1200 a month...half of that going to a loan payment. So instead I just started working another job on top of my corporate job to save money as a cusion for my first couple years of Airline pay. Well 2 years later I'm ready to make the jump with enough money in the bank and no one is hiring...go figure.
 
Excellent DenverPilot, glad to see someone used some common sense and planned a little bit instead of jumping right on in.

I suppose my main issue with someone complaining about the pay is that it's not a secret how much or how little one is going to make in the airlines.

The pay scales are public knowledge (thanks to APC, and the assorted access to the CBAs for the union companies). If you don't like how little you'll be making, then don't go and work for these companies. Moreover, don't complain when you were hired at 190 or 250 hours of TT by these companies and complain about the pay.

It just makes my head shake. Sorry I'm not as sympathetic as others.
 
surreal1221 said:
Excellent DenverPilot, glad to see someone used some common sense and planned a little bit instead of jumping right on in.

I suppose my main issue with someone complaining about the pay is that it's not a secret how much or how little one is going to make in the airlines.

The pay scales are public knowledge (thanks to APC, and the assorted access to the CBAs for the union companies). If you don't like how little you'll be making, then don't go and work for these companies. Moreover, don't complain when you were hired at 190 or 250 hours of TT by these companies and complain about the pay.

It just makes my head shake. Sorry I'm not as sympathetic as others.
Click to expand...

I agree! Why be sympathetic? If someone gets themselves into a situation, that they knew of beforehand, I have no sympathy. I am all for fighting for better pay, and plan to get involved 100% with union work, as soon as I can, once I am hired by an airline. I have no issue hearing someone talk about the need to improve pay, etc. What I have no sympathy for, are the people who do nothing but outright complain about the pay, schedules, etc. The way I see it, you knew what you were getting into, or you should have done the research, to learn what you were getting into. Many did not. I don't have sympathy for that, either.

With that said, I am doing the same as Denverpilot. I am paying as I go, and plan to have no debt, when entering this career. I think that is the smartest thing anyone can do. I think being debt free is important, no matter what career you are entering.
 
ChrisH said:
I agree! Why be sympathetic? If someone gets themselves into a situation, that they knew of beforehand, I have no sympathy. I am all for fighting for better pay, and plan to get involved 100% with union work, as soon as I can, once I am hired by an airline. I have no issue hearing someone talk about the need to improve pay, etc. What I have no sympathy for, are the people who do nothing but outright complain about the pay, schedules, etc. The way I see it, you knew what you were getting into, or you should have done the research, to learn what you were getting into. Many did not. I don't have sympathy for that, either.

With that said, I am doing the same as Denverpilot. I am paying as I go, and plan to have no debt, when entering this career. I think that is the smartest thing anyone can do. I think being debt free is important, no matter what career you are entering.
Click to expand...

If I could express my feelings with proper word usage, it might come out like this ;)
 
Travel

Alchemy said:
I think what's important is to take your uncle's situation in the context of what it took to get there. Granted he might be an '83 hire who didn't exactly take the difficult route (no offense), but odds are there was a lot of hard work, furloughs, bankruptcies, displacements, divorces, and paycuts to get where he is today.

With that said, if you can make it through the rough patches it's not a bad gig. I've spent the past week in Turkey and am typing this from Cairo; there's no way I'd be seeing these places were it not for this job.
Click to expand...

I hear ya.

I am typing this from my itouch in a bar next to the hostel I've been staying at here in Rome for the past few days. The people in my room found it hilarious that I came over here with four days off from work.

Alright we're up next for karaoke...singing It's Not Unusual with two Chinese girls and some guy named Franz.
 
DenverPilot8 said:
You know I have to agree with the plannning argument here. I remember looking very closely at what it would take to get to the airlines 2 years ago and saying to myself "Damn with the way things are right now I could be an airline pilot in 9 months if I just drop $55,000 pretty much guaranteed!!!!" Man that was so damn tempting. In essence I could have my dream in 9 months of time. Well after looking at the financial numbers of that I couldn't beleive anyone was going to ATP and paying loan payments of $500-$700 a month on a 20k a year salary. After tax that works out to be about $1200 a month...half of that going to a loan payment. So instead I just started working another job on top of my corporate job to save money as a cusion for my first couple years of Airline pay. Well 2 years later I'm ready to make the jump with enough money in the bank and no one is hiring...go figure.
Click to expand...

Don't sweat it. It's a downturn, and they happen like clockwork. If you've saved the money for training, and can keep a job while doing it, you have a really good chance of being in the right place at the right time. You will be coming out of training with little or no debt, still have a job that pays the bills, and will be available when the hiring doors open again. You'll be in a position where you can pick and choose when and how you get into the profession.

Good luck.
 
Re: Travel

Nick said:
Alright we're up next for karaoke...singing It's Not Unusual with two Chinese girls and some guy named Franz.
Click to expand...

Did you atleast do this classic dance with it. If not...It doesn't count.:)
[yt]zS1cLOIxsQ8&[/yt]
 
Well I fell into the trap I guess you could say. I knew how little the airlines paid starting out, but figured a $550 loan payment would be tough first year, but second year it wouldn't be bad. Guess I didn't account for getting furloughed. :D

I paid my loan payments the whole first year, but then my parents decided they wanted to pay for my education. Being that I never went to college and pretty much got to where I am on my own, my parents thought they should pay for my education. Good timing too, cuz getting furloughed puts a nice halt on the money train. There is no way I could afford that loan right now. I'd just default on it for sake of paying more important bills. Like morgage, electric etc.
 
This has been a very good thread.

Any job can seriously suck at times. I would like to see better pay when I start my flying career, but I am planning on it not being there. So I am preparing for the step down in income by saving money. I will have all my training paid for with money in the bank so my wife and I can keep our current standard of living while I work my way through the ranks to a better income. This low pay is a known fact so plan for it people. It is not anyone's fault other than yours if you cannot pay your bills. It is not the airlines, you knew how much they paid. It is not the expensive flight school, you knew how much you paid. How about a second job? You have the time. Having said all that I will do what I can to improve the overall standard for entry pilots when I opportunity.

This is a job and jobs suck. This job happens to have some cool perks that others do not. One needs to compare all of the known good and bad to any important decision in life an go from there. I have done that and I am looking forward for the change in my life. I wish I could do it now, but my situation and the market dictates I wait.
 
Itchy said:
It's not all roses.

0430 Van rides.
Not seeing your kids recitals
No stability.
Job losses
Whipsawing regionals all clambering for a piece of the pie.
Medicals.
Bad day checkrides.
15 seconds of oops kills YEARS of attaboys.
Lots more.

Just keeping it real.
Click to expand...

Funny, that sounds ALOT like law enforcement, except the job lossess, and I'm usually at work a little after 0430. Interesting.. But I LOOVE my job!!
 
ChrisH said:
With that said, I am doing the same as Denverpilot. I am paying as I go, and plan to have no debt, when entering this career. I think that is the smartest thing anyone can do. I think being debt free is important, no matter what career you are entering.
Click to expand...

You and DenverPilot will be very glad you chose this route in the end. I distinctly remember working my office job that I hated, and looking at the threads of people getting hired at the airlines. I was so ready to just get a loan and jump in, but in the end it just didn't make sense so I paid as I went. Man am I glad I did that!! I now have 6 months of salary in savings, and have pretty low overhead. I actually save more money with my flying job than I did with my (much better paying) office job since I made such an effort to get rid of my debt.

It would really suck to lose my job, but at least I wouldn't be destroying my credit by defaulting on loans or credit cards. More importantly, I am able to go out and have beers with friends, take a girl out every once in awhile, and occasionally buy something fun for myself. It's those little things that make your life much more enjoyable.
 
:yeahthat:

There we go. . .at least some of you guys are getting what everyone else who came before me have been saying for all these years.

It's not about the destination, it's about the journey and being able to feed yourself during that journey. ;)

Good job.
 
wrxpilot said:
I was so ready to just get a loan and jump in, but in the end it just didn't make sense so I paid as I went. Man am I glad I did that!! I now have 6 months of salary in savings, and have pretty low overhead. I actually save more money with my flying job than I did with my (much better paying) office job since I made such an effort to get rid of my debt.
Click to expand...

Yep, instant gratification has its price. I am glad you took the thought out route.
 
Re: Travel

mhcasey said:
Great to see semi-obscure history tidbits brought up on an aviation forum! 2 points for Doug!
Click to expand...

I'm a huge history geek.

You know, education and all, I'm one of those educated elitists! Damn us! :)
 
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