This career rocks man, seriously.

[ChrisH]

This career sucks. But you know what? So does working at Home Depot. So does laying hardwood floor. What sucks worse is sanding and refinishing a hardwood floor. What sucks even more than that, is cleaning and buffing a floor in an autoshop. What sucks worse than that and worse than that, is being on furlough and having to bury your head in the ground to find money.

Every job SUCKS. Thats why its called a JOB. You're going to die in your life, so stop worrying about WHAT you do in your JOB and start giving more attention to WHAT you do WITH your LIFE.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If I, and probably everybody had their choice, they wouldn't work at all. They would be millionaires, relaxing in their beach home, on some resort island. Unfortunately, for most, life doesn't turn out that way, thus, you have to work.

A job is a job. Hopefully you look forward to going to work, but a job is still a job, nonetheless. Especially right now, there is a lot of negativity floating around about the airline pilot career. Truth be told, if you question anybody, in almost any job, they will name off con after con, and reason why you shouldn't pursue that career. Thousands are being laid off in non-aviation related job, it seems, almost daily. The grass certainly is not any greener, and really, no job is secure. My parents work in the medical field, and their hospital, a few years ago, had large layoffs, even of medical personnel, due to the hospital having financial problems. It can happen anywhere.

I've had the opportunity, with my job, to talk to a large number of pilots, both captains and FOs, mostly regional, and a few major. I've yet to really talk to anybody who absolutely hated the job. Most enjoyed it, but had a few negatives about it. You'll find that anywhere, at any job.

 

[Trip7]

There are people with full time jobs and families to take care of who come home and religiously play flight simulator pretending to be airline pilots...Haven't seen anybody playing doctor or lawyer simulator recently...

Me and a couple friends are non revving to the Dominican Republic next month for a little vacation. Yup job this sucks, I think I will go cut myself...

 

[esa17]

I've never understood how some people can have nothing good to say about their work, yet won't quit and do something different.

Its easier to complain about what the problem is than it is to actually do something about it. Every time I hear people belly ache on and on I just think of Dante from Clerks....happy to mess himself instead of lifting the seat because its too much effort.


Any job, no matter the industry, is what you make of it. Its not like none of us didn't see this coming....BREAKING NEWS....The industry is cyclical!

 

[ChrisH]

There are people with full time jobs and families to take care of who come home and religiously play flight simulator pretending to be airline pilots...Haven't seen anybody playing doctor or lawyer simulator recently...

Me and a couple friends are non revving to the Dominican Republic next month for a little vacation. Yup job this sucks, I think I will go cut myself...

LOL!!

You know, like c172captain, I was seriously considering giving up pursuing the airline pilot career. I started to get caught up in all of the negativity. I then had a nice talk with someone from JC, who was very encouraging. A few days later, at work, I had a nice conversation with a CAL 737 FO, who commutes out of the city/airport I work at. He was very encouraging. Are there negatives? Yes. There are negatives in any job.

I have plenty of friends and family who work their 9-5 jobs, except they aren't really 9-5. They often work many more hours than that, making the same salary as a 2-3 year regional FO, or a regional captain. They don't necessarily have weekends off, and while they may be at home everynight, in their own bed, they are usually exausted, and that time at home isn't spent playing games with the family. The grass is not greener, although it usually seems that way.

 

[PGT]

I can't give my opinion on this because I'm still hacking away at college and ratings but I did have the opportunity to work for a large financial institution for 2 years while attending school.

Here's what got:
Few careers will pay great and be awesome right out of college
I know a manager who works 7am-~8-9PM Mon-Fri. and 8am-4pm Sat. just to get ahead of everyone else.
Another mid-level manager gets around 30-50 emails a day, come budget time or when a project is due she works ~10 hour days.

In fact in the business building at my school there's a sign hanging above the 4th floor (after 96 steps) that reads "You think that was hard? Try climbing the corporate ladder"

As someone said on this site a while ago, the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[Airdale]

Look, you guys make good points and have valid positions regarding this career.

Firebird can attest that there ARE much worse jobs you could be doing. Getting shot at in Iraq ain't fun, neither is pushing through 20' seas in the middle of winter.

Some jobs have a lot of positive things, some have a lot of negative aspects. I find that its all about balance. You have to have a balance between the good things and the bad things.

Being an airline pilot has a lot of annoyances. Like lots of time spent away from home. Early van rides, crappy starting pay, MX issues, Furloughs etc. etc. But it also has a lot cool things, like seeing above the weather, a good crosswind landing, no manual labor , a cup of coffee with a great view, the smell of freshly exhausted JET A! etc. etc. etc.

If you can't balance these things you'll be in trouble. If one aspect overshadows another, its going to drag you down. If being away from home for a few days really tears you apart, well than it doesn't matter how positive the rest of the things are, you're going to want out.

All I am trying to do with my life is be happy and be something. Be something to my wife, my family, my friends and myself. A job is just what you have to do as an adult. Being a pilot is just a job. You stary eyed kids think its the coolest thing in the world right now. Good. But don't think you'll always have that opinion. One day, it will just be a job. Than you'll complain about the pay, or crew scheduling, or some jerk you flew with. That doesn't make it a bad job, it just makes it a job! I personally think its a good job. The whole pension issue bothers me, but its a good job. It beats some of the crap I'm doing right now, thats for damn sure. I've got a splinter UNDER my fingernail right now just to make $12 an hour. It isn't fun. Not when you're born to fly man! But I'll keep waiting for my recall to my real job.

What really gets me annoyed though, is when an individual or group of individuals try and push their view point or their experiences in this career onto others. Just because one guy can't stand the schedule, doesn't mean some other guy wouldn't love the schedule. I personally loved it, because I always had a few days off during the week to enjoy the outdoors without all the weekend warriors out there.

Just because you don't like the job, its unfair to push that view on someone who might enjoy it. Live life, get paid and get laid! Do what makes you happy.

 

[killbilly]

In my opinion as a certified "old fart" that's been around the block (and in more than one career) being happy with one's work is almost entirely a function of the individual, not the job itself.

:yeahthat:

More people really should pay attention to what SteveC has to say.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's a job. I find it amusing that those who are defending the profession on this thread, in many cases, have yet to actually take part in the profession. You are speculating based on rumor and innuendo. It would appear that the OP's uncle has been quite fortunate. Not everyone has been as lucky over the last decade. So it makes sense that there would be a variety of opinions -- some good, some bad.

The very nature of this website -- itself a tribute to Doug's success -- proves that the profession can be very rewarding to some... even as it is devastating to others.

I've been very straightforward in my posts on this site. I've explained the choices i've made, how I made them, and the associated timing. I have earned the privilege of being a little skeptical when young folks brim with confidence and optimism.

A few years ago I found myself in the right seat of a turboprop after my second furlough. During the course of the trip I was telling the Captain (who might have been a week over 23) about the tribulations that had led me to be his first officer. He pondered my story and offered, "Man, I can't believe you didn't go back to AirTran when they called! I've wanted to work there my whole life!"

Just goes to show you, we are all looking at the industry through the lens of our individual experiences. Opinions will vary.

 

[ChrisH]

It's a job. I find it amusing that those who are defending the profession on this thread, in many cases, have yet to actually take part in the profession. You are speculating based on rumor and innuendo. It would appear that the OP's uncle has been quite fortunate. Not everyone has been as lucky over the last decade. So it makes sense that there would be a variety of opinions -- some good, some bad.

The very nature of this website -- itself a tribute to Doug's success -- proves that the profession can be very rewarding to some... even as it is devastating to others.

I've been very straightforward in my posts on this site. I've explained the choices i've made, how I made them, and the associated timing. I have earned the privilege of being a little skeptical when young folks brim with confidence and optimism.

A few years ago I found myself in the right seat of a turboprop after my second furlough. During the course of the trip I was telling the Captain (who might have been a week over 23) about the tribulations that had led me to be his first officer. He pondered my story and offered, "Man, I can't believe you didn't go back to AirTran when they called! I've wanted to work there my whole life!"

Just goes to show you, we are all looking at the industry through the lens of our individual experiences. Opinions will vary.

True, but one of the biggest points I try to make, is that this can be the case for basically all other careers, as well. Plenty of people are stuck, trying to climb the corporate ladder, working 10+ hour days, making no more than a regional airline pilot. Others were able to have great success and climb the ladder rather quickly. Any job is going to be based on one's own experiences, and certainly not all experience will be good ones.

I understand that there are negatives associated with an airline pilot career. My biggest thing is hearing the people claim that life outside of aviation is so much better. Many pilots have never worked in a 9-5 cubicle job, anymore than I, or some others here, posting, have worked as an airline pilot. I find those pilots make the same assumptions of 9-5 jobs, as non-airline pilots make of the airline pilot career. The grass seems to always be greener on the other side, from both perspectives.

I think finding a middle ground is key. Find something you look forward to going to, because in the end, a job is a job, and there are always going to be negatives associated with them, no matter what the job is.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The difference is that outside of aviation, experience has meaning. (With some exceptions of course). It is rare that people outside of our profession would advance to the equivalent of a Part 121 major Captain only to start again as commuter airline FO if his company were to go out of business.

There is no premium on experience at the airlines. A pilot is a pilot -- nothing more than a warm butt filling a seat required by the FAA. (or so it would seem)

So while in general I agree with you, I also believe it to be an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The pay is excellent for the amount of work we do.

Are you ####ing kidding me?!!! You make $20k a year! I've gotta get out of this thread before my head explodes. :banghead:

 

[ChrisH]

The difference is that outside of aviation, experience has meaning. (With some exceptions of course). It is rare that people outside of our profession would advance to the equivalent of a Part 121 major Captain only to start again as commuter airline FO if his company were to go out of business.

There is no premium on experience at the airlines. A pilot is a pilot -- nothing more than a warm butt filling a seat required by the FAA. (or so it would seem)

So while in general I agree with you, I also believe it to be an apples and oranges comparison.

That is one of the biggest negatives, I find, with the airline industry, is the seniority system, and the way you have to start over at the bottom, to which includes starting over in pay. Outside of aviation, people can typically use their experience to gain employment, making at least the same salary, if not more (in most cases). I do find that pilots, at least on the airline level, seem be viewed more as a cost, and a liability, than an asset, and that does bother me.

 

[Trip7]

Are you ####ing kidding me?!!! You make $20k a year! I've gotta get out of this thread before my head explodes. :banghead:

Hehe, excellent was a good word to use.

That is one of the biggest negatives, I find, with the airline industry, is the seniority system, and the way you have to start over at the bottom, to which includes starting over in pay. Outside of aviation, people can typically use their experience to gain employment, making at least the same salary, if not more (in most cases). I do find that pilots, at least on the airline level, seem be viewed more as a cost, and a liability, than an asset, and that does bother me.

I agree, the seniority system is the career's biggest strength AND its greatest weakness. Starting over is very, very bad whereas in other careers(outside the airlines) experience counts a lot more.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Right now, it "rocks" for me. I'm 25, with 1500 TT, acting as chief pilot of our flight department, in the left seat of a brand new Hawker 850XP, logging lots international experience, and building my resume with things that I could have only dreamed of two years ago.

BUT, on the other side of that, I have no vacation, very few benefits, below average pay, etc etc. You don't see the thirty or forty emails I receive each day from the people I work for. Phone calls start coming in at 7 am, regardless of whether or not I've had five or fifteen hours of sleep. So far, I have worked 22 hour days, had my superiors authorize back to back trips with only 5 hours of rest in between, been questioned and ridiculed on no-go decisions, had my professional input scrutinized and thrown back in my face, along with many other issues that you don't think about when the glitz and glam of the life is all that you see. You stand outside the barb wire fence and you only scratch the surface of things. You sit in the cockpit for a couple of years, and you really get an idea of just how unstable this industry is. You work in a management position for a month and you're ready to retire.

If you happen to read another aviation forum, which requires you to possess a valid pilot certificate to register and will remain nameless, you may have heard the stories of dozens of pilots that have lost their jobs over the past couple of months. Some of them flew for large, historically stable, corporate flight departments that you would have never imagined being threatened by the current financial situation. Now, they're on the streets, frantically searching for contract work or another job; they'll probably have to settle for sub-par pay just to make ends meet when they do find work. If you had asked them for their take on the industry six months ago, they would have been singing its praises. Now, they're hoping to be able to give their kids a good Christmas.

Now, with all that said. Do I wish I had pursued another occupation? Absolutely not! The flying is what makes it all worthwhile. It is my escape from my job. The phone calls stop. Emails can't reach me. The thing that makes it all worthwhile is when the passengers say "thanks a lot, wonderful flight" when we arrive at the destination. Remember, we're in this business for the customer. Be it a "cattle car" or "airborne limo" they're paying you to transport their butts from point A to point B. If you do your best; meaning safely, efficiently and professionally, you will be rewarded. If not monetarily, it will ALWAYS be by the feeling in your heart that you did exactly what you were supposed to do, and you did it to the absolute best of your ability. If you don't get that feeling, or worse, if safe, efficient and professional don't mean anything to you, you need to find another line of work.

 

[jaxpilot84]

The career has been mostly good for me- save for being furloughed from my first jet job 3 months ago which has required me to relocate to the FL Panhandle. But I am 23 with 2800TT, an ATP that I didnt have to pay for and a jet type making mid 40's. I have flown 30 hours in 2 months with my current job. Most importantly I can say that I enjoy going to work. I dont think I could say the same thing if I had been in any other career. Now if I could only get back to NE Florida...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If you're as close to home as the panhandle, I think you should consider yourself lucky.

My nearest family is a 12 hour drive east and no travel benefits with this job. You're a lucky man.

 

[Itchy]

1500 hours/CP/Jet?

Ya did alright!

Some really luck out, some the luck runs out, some just plod along.

 

[B767Driver]

The jobs at the top are pretty darn good. I wish the pay was back at 2000 levels...and it will probably inch back up a bit...but I really enjoy what I'm doing.

The jobs at the bottom are pretty darn bad. I'm just glad I was able to progress through them fairly quickly...not sure I would have stuck it out for a career at some of the bottom feeders.

 

[Holocene]

The secret to fulfulling your dreams is to have really low expectations at the outset. Your hopes won't fall so far when reality hits.

I'm not rich, and may be pushing 30 before I have a shot at flying a 172 for pay.

but when you honestly cannot think of much else that you want to do, then even the "burger king" equivalent of aviations jobs seems apppealing.

 

[TGatch]

The secret to fulfulling your dreams is to have really low expectations at the outset. Your hopes won't fall so far when reality hits.

I'm not rich, and may be pushing 30 before I have a shot at flying a 172 for pay.

but when you honestly cannot think of much else that you want to do, then even the "burger king" equivalent of aviations jobs seems apppealing.

:yeahthat: always be negative so that way when things go bad it's not a real let down and good is a nice surprise!:laff: