The New York Times gets the pilot "shortage" 80% right

[tcco94]

Why do I sense that this article contradicts itself a lot?

Airlines should do ab-initio training.....but jetBlue charged a whopping $125k (making it unattractive)

Regional pilots should make more money....but you're still away from home and working holidays and weekends

Cut the 1500 hour requirement/it's quality not quantity of hours....but Capt. Sully says that's not safe and he couldn't do what he did without the quantity of hours they require at regionals

So what is it? What's the fix? Does it look good for the future? Most of the people are excited for this wave of jobs that are needed and many keep having scared thoughts that they might not have a pilot seat when it's all said an done? I know the it's not a pilot shortage, but a pay shortage argument but it seems like every month the "outlook" changes for people.

Keep in mind I'm at the bottom so maybe that's why I'm getting the "you're in a good spot" comment compared to the guys already in the middle of it....except I don't understand? If I plan on going to a regional in the next 10 months...won't we be screwed and the above guys be better off at getting a shot up than I? I guess this all depends on who you're with and what the future of your company holds...

 

[KFflyer]

I am one of those successful cubical/office types. I worked in IT as first a network/server admin, then programmer, then worked my way up to senior level management. Held CTO and other senior management titles at a few companies with a 6 figure salary.

Far too often I was working 14 hour days, working weekends and holidays, yes even the dress code was an issue.

Walked away and never looked back. Very happy to have made the switch even with the significant drop in pay. Money isn't everything and you have to find what makes you happy.

Although I have worked for a couple of dirt bag operators I still wouldn't change a thing (ok maybe one or two things, Seapot would be one)

And I say this laying on the couch at the Bethel AK airport pilot room. Not getting paid while I wait to finish unpaid training.

It isn't all roses on this side (from my point of view), you deal with people who screw you over left and right but I can confirm its like that on both sides of the fence.

But I'd rather be looking down from up there with low pay than down there looking up wishing I had taken the chance.

I'm approaching that decision point now at age 48. I'm thinking it's now or never. I started in IT as a programmer and now manage a project management office. I don't think I should wait much longer.

 

[Richman]

FIFY. In every little human their lives a little fire, stoked and engorged by the sneaking suspicion that they're getting a raw deal, and that everyone who isn't them is living fat and easy. It's as regular as death, taxes, or angry internet posts.

Mebbe. I still think people are pilot haters. Hater's gonna hate.

Richman

 

[Xcaliber]

Why do I sense that this article contradicts itself a lot?

So what is it? What's the fix?

To be fair, that's not the purpose of journalism. Journalism should tell the facts of a story as objectively as possible. To that end, I think this particular story did a good job of that, and did so much better than most regarding the pilot shortage.

That said, what is the fix? The fix was to drastically raise pilot wages for the regional airline market 5 or 6 years ago. That was when the people who are/would be in the flight deck NOW were looking at the job and trying to decide if it was worth the time and effort. I suspect most said "no." The mainline carriers knew this, saw it coming, and had the opportunity to do something about it, but decided to seek short term profits instead of long term stability. So now they get to sleep in the bed they made.

 

[mshunter]

The mainline carriers knew this, saw it coming, and had the opportunity to do something about it, but decided to seek short term profits instead of long term stability. So now they get to sleep in the bed they made.

This. Plus a little bit of this.

This is the modus operandi of just about every airline though. Wait till it gets so bad that it hurts the bottom line, then throw a hail marry pass and hope for the best.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

There are tons of people who want to fly airplanes that are licensed, but the idea of leaving a comfortable, reliable office job and diving into "the churn" of the regional business in hopes of one day hitting a major is unattractive for a growing number of people.

The decision to be a part time hack, at least in my case, is a purely economic one. I like the idea of retiring. I would prefer a retirement that does not involve living in a cardboard box or subsisting on ramen noodles. Hence, if one is in their thirties and able to save an entire RJ pilot's salary in their retirement accounts every year, it is pretty stupid not to.

The reality is that while flying airplanes may be competitive in terms of compensation 10 years from now, the opportunity cost of lost retirement savings in that time is substantial. Substantial enough that it would not be possible to make that back in one lifetime. So, you are totally correct - there are plenty of more or less qualified pilots out there. Most of them are good enough at math to realize flying for a living is about smart as investing in bitcoin stored on a pwn'd botnet windows XP laptop...

 

[jskibo]

It's not legal anywhere and Seapot has been notified of a coming lawsuit and multipule complaints to the dept of labor.

Non-pilot employees btw get thier full PTO when they leave. How "F'ed up" is that. Says it right in the HR manual.

Watch out for the "New Model" of "Unlimited Time Off"* We moved to it in my band and Exec band last year, this year they moved the rest of the pay bands over to it. Sick, Personal or Vacation all lumped together and logged as one and unlimited.

So many folks excited about it until they figured out their management could just say no and limit it, and since there was no earned time, they owed you nothing if you leave. Nice way to clear the book of that liability.....clever game


*If approved by your Director / Manager / etc

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Watch out for the "New Model" of "Unlimited Time Off"* We moved to it in my band and Exec band last year, this year they moved the rest of the pay bands over to it. Sick, Personal or Vacation all lumped together and logged as one and unlimited.

So many folks excited about it until they figured out their management could just say no and limit it, and since there was no earned time, they owed you nothing if you leave. Nice way to clear the book of that liability.....clever game


*If approved by your Director / Manager / etc

It is also impossible to make bonus targets if you actually take vacation at a lot of places. The only thing my performance plan actually measures is how much vacation and personal time I don't take.

 

[GypsyPilot]

I am one of those successful cubical/office types. I worked in IT as first a network/server admin, then programmer, then worked my way up to senior level management. Held CTO and other senior management titles at a few companies with a 6 figure salary.

Far too often I was working 14 hour days, working weekends and holidays, yes even the dress code was an issue.

Walked away and never looked back. Very happy to have made the switch even with the significant drop in pay. Money isn't everything and you have to find what makes you happy.

Although I have worked for a couple of dirt bag operators I still wouldn't change a thing (ok maybe one or two things, Seapot would be one)

And I say this laying on the couch at the Bethel AK airport pilot room. Not getting paid while I wait to finish unpaid training.

It isn't all roses on this side (from my point of view), you deal with people who screw you over left and right but I can confirm its like that on both sides of the fence.

But I'd rather be looking down from up there with low pay than down there looking up wishing I had taken the chance.

Well said.

I'm one of the very few people here that have had both a lucrative engineering career and a pretty long stint in professional aviation (going on 10 years as a pro pilot).

For whatever reason, I still haven't found that long term career position in aviation. I've instructed, flown 135, 91 corporate, and slogged it out in the regionals. I'm currently an RJ CA, and you know what? This still beats the heck out of my days in the office, without any question. I have way, WAY more time off to pursue the hobbies I love than my 8-5 counter-parts do.

I'm very fortunate to have this unique perspective... The biggest whiners I've ever come across in this industry have never had a job outside aviation. They think everyone else has a two hour lunch, banker hours, no late evenings, and blissful, stress free evening at home. I'm here to tell you, that is a unicorn.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Watch out for the "New Model" of "Unlimited Time Off"* We moved to it in my band and Exec band last year, this year they moved the rest of the pay bands over to it. Sick, Personal or Vacation all lumped together and logged as one and unlimited.

So many folks excited about it until they figured out their management could just say no and limit it, and since there was no earned time, they owed you nothing if you leave. Nice way to clear the book of that liability.....clever game


*If approved by your Director / Manager / etc

"Take as much as you want, Disruptor, but just remember, all the other little Disruptors are coming into work sick to work on their Ruby on Rails applications..."

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Well said.

I'm one of the very few people here that have had both a lucrative engineering career and a pretty long stint in professional aviation (going on 10 years as a pro pilot).

For whatever reason, I still haven't found that long term career position in aviation. I've instructed, flown 135, 91 corporate, and slogged it out in the regionals. I'm currently an RJ CA, and you know what? This still beats the heck out of my days in the office, without any question. I have way, WAY more time off to pursue the hobbies I love than my 8-5 counter-parts do.

I'm very fortunate to have this unique perspective... The biggest whiners I've ever come across in this industry have never had a job outside aviation. They think everyone else has a two hour lunch, banker hours, no late evenings, and blissful, stress free evening at home. I'm here to tell you, that is a unicorn.

I like unicorns.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Why do I sense that this article contradicts itself a lot?

Airlines should do ab-initio training.....but jetBlue charged a whopping $125k (making it unattractive)

Regional pilots should make more money....but you're still away from home and working holidays and weekends

Cut the 1500 hour requirement/it's quality not quantity of hours....but Capt. Sully says that's not safe and he couldn't do what he did without the quantity of hours they require at regionals

So what is it? What's the fix? Does it look good for the future? Most of the people are excited for this wave of jobs that are needed and many keep having scared thoughts that they might not have a pilot seat when it's all said an done? I know the it's not a pilot shortage, but a pay shortage argument but it seems like every month the "outlook" changes for people.

Keep in mind I'm at the bottom so maybe that's why I'm getting the "you're in a good spot" comment compared to the guys already in the middle of it....except I don't understand? If I plan on going to a regional in the next 10 months...won't we be screwed and the above guys be better off at getting a shot up than I? I guess this all depends on who you're with and what the future of your company holds...

The Article does not contradict itself. The Aviation Industry contradicts itself.

 

[Murdoughnut]

I am one of those successful cubical/office types. I worked in IT as first a network/server admin, then programmer, then worked my way up to senior level management. Held CTO and other senior management titles at a few companies with a 6 figure salary.

Far too often I was working 14 hour days, working weekends and holidays, yes even the dress code was an issue.

Walked away and never looked back. Very happy to have made the switch even with the significant drop in pay. Money isn't everything and you have to find what makes you happy.

Although I have worked for a couple of dirt bag operators I still wouldn't change a thing (ok maybe one or two things, Seapot would be one)

And I say this laying on the couch at the Bethel AK airport pilot room. Not getting paid while I wait to finish unpaid training.

It isn't all roses on this side (from my point of view), you deal with people who screw you over left and right but I can confirm its like that on both sides of the fence.

But I'd rather be looking down from up there with low pay than down there looking up wishing I had taken the chance.

Do you have kids? It's a lot easier to walk away from money when it's the difference between your kid going to a good preschool, versus one being investigated by the state.

 

[JMK]

I am one of those successful cubical/office types. I worked in IT as first a network/server admin, then programmer, then worked my way up to senior level management. Held CTO and other senior management titles at a few companies with a 6 figure salary.

Far too often I was working 14 hour days, working weekends and holidays, yes even the dress code.

Just to throw another perspective out there, I currently work IT support for higher ed and rarely work overtime or work on holidays. It's union, state retirement system, normal government holidays, etc. This is where someone usually jumps in about government IT being lazy inefficient government workers because they knew a sloth that had a government job once, yep heard it all before. My point is that you can find a decent QOL in this line of work if you want to.

Edit: I'm wearing shorts at work today too

 

[tcco94]

The Article does not contradict itself. The Aviation Industry contradicts itself.

Aha! Touché

 

[Roger Roger]

Do you have kids? It's a lot easier to walk away from money when it's the difference between your kid going to a good preschool, versus one being investigated by the state.

I wish I'd gone 121 when I was young.

 

[mshunter]

I wish I'd gone 121 when I was young.

Blah! I did it fresh out of a divorce, with two kids, and basically what amounts to a mortgage for student loans+child support. You just manage. And if IIRC, you're about 4-5 years younger than me.

 

[Nark]

I wish I'd gone 121 when I was young.

Years in Alaska are like dog years: 1 full season in Alaska, ages you 3-4 years in the lower 48.
This process is only reversible should you move further South + West to Hawaii.

 

[splash]

Aha! Touché

humanity contradicts itself

Do you have kids? It'salso a lot easier to walk away from money when it's the difference between yur kid going to a good preschool, versus one being investigated by the state.

Why would your child be investigated by the state? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed...but are you talking about "child support taxes" and the inequality evilness behind that matter? Yep, as a father parent, you are not allowed to be poor. You should be rich enough to hire a nanny to raise your child or your wife (or baby momma) leaves and you pay her to raise your child. You are a sperm donor with a paycheck attached and it better be a good paycheck. The ability to work trumps your right to choose where to work now. America, F'yeah!!!

whoops, school investigated by the state... wait until they zero in on your child and the roaches come out of the woodwork claiming to know what is best for them for they are professionals and get paid to do so. Scabs in aviation are nothing compared to these scabs that run amuck.

 

[jskibo]

humanity contradicts itself



Why would your child be investigated by the state? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed...but are you talking about "child support taxes" and the inequality evilness behind that matter? Yep, as a father parent, you are not allowed to be poor. You should be rich enough to hire a nanny to raise your child or your wife (or baby momma) leaves and you pay her to raise your child. You are a sperm donor with a paycheck attached and it better be a good paycheck. The ability to work trumps your right to choose where to work now. America, F'yeah!!!

whoops, school investigated by the state... wait until they zero in on your child and the roaches come out of the woodwork claiming to know what is best for them for they are professionals and get paid to do so. Scabs in aviation are nothing compared to these scabs that run amuck.

I think he meant a crappy daycare under investigation.........But I get your point