Article: Are pilots flying beyond their limits?

So it's more like what happend at United with their Allegis corporation then with Midwest?

No, Allegis was a whole different animal. The concept behind Allegis was combining a bunch of different travel companies under one holding company, and integrating an entire travel network. It didn't work out too well.

The ancillary revenue schemes being developed in the industry today are completely different. The idea is to extract extra revenue from passengers for things besides their fare, but doing so without having to have additional subsidiaries. Checked bag fees are the biggest example, with in-flight entertainment a close second.

On the other hand, you do have Allegiant, which is a little bit closer to the Allegis model, but still not the same. Allegiant makes a huge portion of their revenue (and profits) not only from the airline, but from bundling travel packages for rental cars, hotels, travel insurance, etc. However, Allegiant doesn't own the rental car companies or hotels as Allegis did, which is a key difference. Allegiant merely bundles them into a convenient package.
 
Well I don't know about everyone else, but I don't trust the media. Good for you for taking a chance Charlie. Just don't get bit in the backside (crossing my fingers for you).

Although they wont admit it, journalist are in the business of making money, and a name for themselves. They don't care who they run over in the process. We've all (hopefully) seen how they try to spin and fabricate stories. Unfortunately they are not held accountable for their actions like most everybody else. I'm very cautious with the media. About the only thing I don't question from the media and reporters are local stories and sports scores.
 
Although they wont admit it, journalist are in the business of making money, and a name for themselves. They don't care who they run over in the process. We've all (hopefully) seen how they try to spin and fabricate stories. Unfortunately they are not held accountable for their actions like most everybody else. I'm very cautious with the media. About the only thing I don't question from the media and reporters are local stories and sports scores.

Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your "do whatever it takes, ruin as many people's lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long so you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way"?
 
Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your "do whatever it takes, ruin as many people's lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long so you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way"?

It's a bit of a sore spot. Not all are that bad, but I've seen a family member's life torn apart by the media. They ignored the full story, reported on bits and pieces that were taken out of context. This person's business was ruined, the apology? An email. But yes Mr. Zoolander, I get your point.
 
I don't recommend this without talking to your union first. It can turn ugly very fast.


True.

Recently, one of our Union guys did a piece with the local paper. He reserved final edit, and it turned out pretty well.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon.../stories/110109dnbuspilotfatigue.3cf416b.html

Read up on American Eagle pilot Doug Gibbs and the hours he keeps.

Click the pictures links for more data. Good link to an ALPA fatigue paper, as well.

- from the Dallas Morning News
 
Well I don't know about everyone else, but I don't trust the media. Good for you for taking a chance Charlie. Just don't get bit in the backside (crossing my fingers for you).


Thanks, brother. So far it's been a good experience and a necessary one to get the story some exposure. Somebody had to stick their neck out a little.
Nobody follows the guy that isn't at the front yelling "Follow me!"
 
Thanks, brother. So far it's been a good experience and a necessary one to get the story some exposure. Somebody had to stick their neck out a little.
Nobody follows the guy that isn't at the front yelling "Follow me!"

Eh, well as long as it doesn't get chopped off. Den of vipers, the lot of them.
 
The point of a lot of the ideas I support don't necessarily equate to a direct solution to the specific scenario that caused the crash of Colgan 3407. They're intended to address the deeper cultural underpinnings of an industry.

The problem is that they're being sold to the public as things to make sure that something like 3407 doesn't happen again. If we could be honest about what problems we're really trying to solve, the solutions would be much more effective at solving them. But if we try and frame them as solutions to a specific crash, we're going to run into the obstacle that many of the desired solutions simply don't enter into the equation when talking about the causes of the 3407 crash. And thus it will be much harder to get them done.

Problem is, schools in America are gonna have to up their screening and entrance requirements for more than just a credit check. The training is gonna have to be some form of "if you don't pass X stage check, you get one more chance" type thing similar to initial new hire training at an airline. I've seen someone fail a checkride three times and just keep on trying until they finally pass it. Only then can you start to compare training in the US to some of those low time, ab initio training programs elsewhere in the world.

If it must be so, then so be it. I see nothing wrong with stricter standards for the primary training of those who aspire to be commercial pilots.
 
If it must be so, then so be it. I see nothing wrong with stricter standards for the primary training of those who aspire to be commercial pilots.


Neither do I, but the people that try to make $$$ off of flight schools do. That and who knows what MPL could do to future wages. We're already as low as it's gonna get (I hope). But, when it comes up that airlines can hire people that wouldn't technically be able to rent a Cessna and fly their family around, well, you can bet they're not exactly gonna wanna pay top dollar.
 
Neither do I, but the people that try to make $$$ off of flight schools do. That and who knows what MPL could do to future wages. We're already as low as it's gonna get (I hope). But, when it comes up that airlines can hire people that wouldn't technically be able to rent a Cessna and fly their family around, well, you can bet they're not exactly gonna wanna pay top dollar.

Which is why if there is to be something like the MPL, it should be something above and beyond the normal Commercial certificate (i.e. you have your regular CMEL, and then you can get your multi-crew certification). I definitely don't like the idea of putting someone in a crew environment who can't fly the airplane on their own, but I still think there's use to having training on how to function as part of a crew before one gets to the airlines.
 
I still think there's use to having training on how to function as part of a crew before one gets to the airlines.

Alternately, you could have two fully qualified, capable, and experienced adults who can make decisions together drawing on their extensive real world history of flying airplanes. MPL is inevitably a regression from the "co-captain" concept and a return to the good ole days of one pilot and one monkey. MHO, etc.
 
Alternately, you could have two fully qualified, capable, and experienced adults who can make decisions together drawing on their extensive real world history of flying airplanes. MPL is inevitably a regression from the "co-captain" concept and a return to the good ole days of one pilot and one monkey. MHO, etc.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
 
Alternately, you could have two fully qualified, capable, and experienced adults who can make decisions together drawing on their extensive real world history of flying airplanes. MPL is inevitably a regression from the "co-captain" concept and a return to the good ole days of one pilot and one monkey. MHO, etc.

What did you say about Monkey?:mad:
 
Alternately, you could have two fully qualified, capable, and experienced adults who can make decisions together drawing on their extensive real world history of flying airplanes. MPL is inevitably a regression from the "co-captain" concept and a return to the good ole days of one pilot and one monkey. MHO, etc.

In some cases, it's already regressed now by putting some of the inexperienced guys in the flight deck at the regionals. It doesn't happen much now since all of our FOs have 1+ years experience at the regional level, but when I first upgraded, I had more than a few flights where I might as well have been flying single pilot unless we were spot on a sim profile.
 
Eh, well as long as it doesn't get chopped off. Den of vipers, the lot of them.

True, then again, I used to risk my actual life for strangers. The risk is relative. It's worth it.

We're wasting everything those who came before us achieved if we don't exhibit the same courage as they did.
 
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