Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Not turboprop 135. But I need both hands to count personal friends that have left 135 jet jobs to the majors.
Talk me out of this...
- Thread starter Volare
- Start date
Not turboprop 135. But I need both hands to count personal friends that have left 135 jet jobs to the majors.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Or you can take a time machine to 5 years ago, and get into a Brasilia at Skywest the day you walk on property...
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
You sure could!
I'm not trying to cheer for AMF. I have PLENTY of gripes at the moment that flared up in only the last 8 months. Just showing what ways available to move through the company.
Volare
Well-Known Member
I probably could, and leaning towards will, staying where I'm at. Just continuing flying right seat in the excel, and PIC building in a 421. They pretty much said once I get to insurance mins they are willing to type me in a 525. But I have, at the very least, another year before I get to that point. I Just always held PIC and decision making in high regard when building time. I just don't want to be a 6kTT pilot with 500 PIC who only knows the right side of the plane. Also the whole challenge of single pilot at night, WX, blah, blah, blah. As far as after this or freight, who knows? Im guessing the majors in the next 5-10 years will be like a whale scooping up plankton, but I'm would be perfectly content flying a high end 135 or 91k type of deal for a career. Maybe Netjets will get right and be the happy end of my rainbow like I once dreamt.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I am just messing with you.
I do have to call you out though. Only way you are making 71k your third year at AMF is if you haul 20k of drugs and sell them.
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Inverted
mmmmmm wine
NetJets isn't as bad as some of the loud mouth grumpy old pilots on forums make it out to be. The majors are already scooping up pilot as fas as they can. United just announced a hiring increase from 700 pilots this year, to 1000. The majors are hiring insane numbers. The industry isn't at a point where prop freight pilots aren't desirable enough to hired over current competition from other parts of the industry. The Bro at AMF would offer the best shot at having a major look at you. Single pilot freight makes you a good single pilot. Single pilot freight does not make you a good CRM driven crewmember on the flightdeck. When I interviewed at my current job, there were 2 guys flying King Airs single pilot and neither made it past the sim portion. The training program that our company uses is 121 and they are so focused and driven on CRM and safety. If you are not used to, or experienced with that type of flying, it can be hard to get hired at certain places. If a company knows they're not desperate for warm bodies yet (like 135 freight, regionals etc.) they can continue to turn people away that don't meet the standard they want right now.
Just like you aren't worried about rushing to the next step, stop worrying about being a PIC or SIC. Figure out what lifestyle will give you what you want, then take the path of least resistance to get you there, your logbook will fill up naturally as a result. You're not gonna go from AMF to a major anytime soon. You can go from AMF to a national but you have to put in several years to even get noticed. I am not sure why, but it seems to me that more regional guys are getting hired out of the right seat, and into the right seat at a national, 121 sup, or 135 jet. It is as if the tables have turned a bit, as I used to think 135 freight offered more versatility.
I don't think you can go wrong no matter what you do. It depends on how long you want it to take you to get to the end goal. I told myself years ago that I would be perfectly ok with getting to a major 5 years later than usual if it meant that I was at a job where I was making good money, and had good QOL. I didn't want to go to a regional and suffer, and I wanted to leave AMF ASAP to stop suffering. Both avenues are hard for different reasons. If you want to be treated better, go regional. They are almost all union, so you have contract protection. I personally think the schedule at a regional is better than 90% of the AMF system. If you like being on your own more, and don't like people as much, go AMF. I know a few guys still at AMF who hate humans, so they fly boxes to their crew apartment, lock themselves in a room for 9 hours, then go fly back. Nothing wrong with that at all, if that's what you like. The typical schedule for me was mon-fri 730am to 730pm. Add an hour on each end for pre and post. I found that I have more quality time at home on a schedule where I am away from home 4-5 days, and home for 4-5 days.
I think any decision you make will have pros and cons. Try and pick the one that won't beat you up as much while you're there.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
I know a couple guys that left AMF within the last 6 months after being there under 2 years for a supplemental 121. It can be done, but I think it has more to do with the people than the fact they were at AMF.
Again... when was the last time you drew a paycheck from AMF?
@Volare
I didn't consider that you had 1500 hours.... EMS requires a bit more time, like Zach said.
Inverted is correct in what he said. Everything has pros and cons. Where we are at in our careers, there are dues to be paid. Pay them in full, and walk away knowing that you did what it took to get to the place where you want to hang your hat long term.
I agree with @UAL747400 as well when he said that barring some major catastrophe in the industry, things ARE improving, and will continue to get better over the next several years. A seniority number at a regional isn't going to help you unless you plan on staying at a regional for a long period of time. A seniority number at AMF isn't going to help you, either. By design.... AMF is a get your time and go place, as much as the President wants to make it a long term place, the culture... beers, etc. Build 1000 MTPIC as quickly as you can get it while you can, and plan your next step while building the time.
There are 1000 ways to skin this cat. The ONE THING that EVERY aviator that I have talked to is in agreement with is this one thing; 4000tt, 1000mtpic are the 2 numbers that matter the most if you want to fly big jets, either in Corporate or 121. Get those numbers ASAP.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
4 years. Am I wrong in my assessment? Are you guys getting per diem while on duty now? No. The only way to make extra money is work on your days off, go TDY or be a training captain or check airmen. I am not talking about management positions like ACP or higher. We are talking line pilot salaries to a potential new hire. CP at a regional makes 6 figures, that does nothing for the potential new hire.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Go TDY? More like get FORCED into TDY is how it was going down.
Inverted
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Well ya, every time somebody went on TDY it was forced. And it was always 4 days that turned into 3 weeks lol.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
The more I fly in 121 the more I realize that 2 crew airplanes don't exactly guarantee CRM skills.
I would seriously love to see a study on this because I am willing to bet that single pilot guys have better CRM skills than people think. Sadly this will remain an assumption that HR will use to weed out applicants.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I actually asked for TDY. Meals paid for along with the increase in money from sitting weekends in a hotel was nice. The routes I would get were always allowing me to build more flight time as well. It was win/win. Obviously someone with a family may not want to TDY but unfortunately some of us don't have a life.
My personal favorite event at AMF was when I would get TDYed and find out that one of the pilots at my TDY base were TDYed elsewhere.
Inverted
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Has nothing to do with the airplane, it has to do with your training program. Commuters flew Metros with 2 qualified crewmembers inside, and those guys went on to the majors. If anyone thinks that hiring isn't done by relevant work experience, internal recs, and hourly requirements hasn't been paying attention. If you are finding a lack of quality CRM skills in the captains you fly with, the program isn't good enough. It isn't an assumption that a 2 pilot crew is safer, it is fact, backed up with decades of statistical data. HR will weed out applicants this way until the pool runs dry, and they will adjust accordingly.
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If I was single it would have been awesome. The last thing I want to do is go away for months on end with a family. . Not sure how meals were paid for, 35 a day per diem can get you 3 square at McDonalds, but that isn't food.
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Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Free Breakfast at every hotel I was at + buying groceries and limiting my eating out means I was making money on per diem. It can be done.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I'm not saying a two crew airplane isn't safer. I am saying that having primarily single pilot experience doesn't mean they wont work well in a CRM environment. Some people can't learn to appreciate having a second pilot to lean on without first flying solo and scaring the hell out of themselves.
CRM programs can only do so much and what I have found is that guys that have been flying in a crew environment for a majority of their professional career don't take CRM seriously. The CRM classes at my place of work seem to be a joke fest and I sadly expect it to be similar at the other regionals.
Honestly I doubt anyone has solid facts on single pilot guys having issues with the transition to a crew environment and CRM beyond "I knew a guy" or "my friend said". It is an assumption that someone in a CRM environment is more likely to do well in a different CRM environment. Based on my limited experience at the regionals, people that have worked in CRM environments 10+ years seem to be no better than fresh guys making the transition. I seriously don't think I have ever heard a CA say "What do you think?" when something comes up. Sadly these are the guys with this assumed "good" CRM experience that are getting hired right now.
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Again, I don't even think it has to do with the transition. I made the transition, you made the transition. I think it more has to do with who is a quicker "fit" for hiring. The answer is simple, somebody who has been flying as part of a crew in a jet. CRM only works if you believe in it. There will always be crusty guys who scoff at the idea of CRM. If the CRM training at your regional isn't taken seriously, that is the problem right there.
Sorry I missed this.... As far as your assessment goes, I think things have changed significantly in your 4 years of not working here. Mostly better. Per diem; I'm not sure what you mean by "getting per diem on duty". Per diem is paid out when you go TDY, or similar. Do we get per diem every day that we work our normal sked? No. Do we get per diem every day that we work TDY? Yes. We also get an additional 10 hours of work for going TDY (they're called "units", but whatevs.). Comes out to around an extra $300 (net) a week w/ the extra units and per diem. 99 pay is higher, so it's slightly more for them. 2 weeks TDY= extra $600. One of the downsides of the per diem; it takes 4-6 weeks to get paid the per diem. That's irritating.
As for the $35/day TDY money; I go to the grocery store Monday night when I land. Our hotels have at least a microwave and fridge, if not a full kitchen. I eat breakfast at the hotel in the am, drink/eat protein shakes or bars after I work out, make something from the store, or pack it with me, and eat dinner at the hotel at night. Both meals are provided by the hotel as part of the room fee. If I don't go out, I'm making money.
That kid who was TDY'ing his brains out? He was on pace to make $65,000 flying a Chieftain. After taxes. He's headed to Aguadilla to fly a Metro making $47,000 instead. What's the better tradeoff? The $65 or the Metro? It illustrates the point that EVERYTHING in this industry has tradeoffs.
I agree with you that it's important to find the thing that makes you happy and drive that nail for as long as you can.
I do disagree that single pilot freight makes you, simply, a good single pilot. The breadth of experience is expansive. I believe that every pilot should spend time alone flying airplanes. It makes them better, and more competent pilots. Ultimately, better decision makers than if they fly with a crew their entire careers.
As for being "forced" to go TDY; if you haven't learned how to say "NO" yet to someone, well, that would be YOUR problem and not the company's. I found that when I said "NO", the drama decreased SIGNIFICANTLY. What I know is that when I leave here, people will forget my name a week after I leave, or they'll remember me by seeing one of my shots.
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