Talk me out of this...

Volare

Well-Known Member
Hi all, feels like the right place to post this. I'm pushing 1300TT currently flying right seat in excels(pt91). The company I'm at has kind of a revolving door in the right seat, get hired at low time, get your 1500 hours head to the regionals. It's really a great opportunity if you get picked up here. However you are left with a glaring weakness of little to no PIC. I'm kind of thinking of bucking the trend and going to fly boxes. I'm not sure if at 1500 hours if an Ameriflight would hire straight into the Metroliner or whatever else is available on the cargo scene. The big deal is trying to find that coveted PIC(turbine would be nice) time. However most people treat that as a step back. Everyone just tells me to go 121, but I feel that just sets you up for just more 121, nothing else. Am I crazy? I know the equipment will be a little bit of a step back, but I feel the type of time is more important, right? --John
 
If you plan on making a career of flying 121, go 121.

If you plan on making a career of flying 91/135, going 135 wouldn't be a bad option.

If you can get an excel PIC type where you're at, it might be a good idea to stay for the type and then move on to something else. I'm sure you've learned by now that on this side of the industry total time means very little compared to time in type.
 
Avoid 135 cargo if you can. Equipment sucks. Pay sucks. Schedule sucks. Go 121 get a type and an ATP and if you don't like it then try and find a 135 gig that requires more than just 135 IFR minimums to apply.
 
Avoid 135 cargo if you can. Equipment sucks. Pay sucks. Schedule sucks. Go 121 get a type and an ATP and if you don't like it then try and find a 135 gig that requires more than just 135 IFR minimums to apply.

In my opinion it would be a much quicker transition to 135 if you start out 135. This is evident by most guys on JC that fly 135/91 having prior 135 experience. It's just how it is.

Pay is a tough call. I guess it depends on how long you plan on long you plan on staying at the 135 operator or how how quickly you can upgrade at a regional.
 
I wished a type here was an option, but it just won't be for a long time. I'm not 100% up for living the rat race that is the regionals, but not 100% opposed either.
I'd be very happy with pax 135 or 91K netjets type of deal eventually. I know flying the back side of the clock is no bueno but I figured what's a year?
 
I wished a type here was an option, but it just won't be for a long time. I'm not 100% up for living the rat race that is the regionals, but not 100% opposed either.
I'd be very happy with pax 135 or 91K netjets type of deal eventually. I know flying the back side of the clock is no bueno but I figured what's a year?

80% of AMF's flights are on the front side of the clock. Contact @FreightDogs for more info on AMF.
 
What Boris said^ :) first year you will be making more money then most all reginals, which helps you stablize yourself. Sharpens the instrument skills quickly, and in my opinion is down right alot of fun. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I don't think you'll regret doing freight though. Listen to these guys...they know what freight ops are good companies.
 
80% of AMF's flights are on the front side of the clock. Contact @FreightDogs for more info on AMF.
The further away from a main hub you are the better your schedule will be. In short, stay away from CVG.

Any other base seems just fine on the schedule front. Just be prepared to live in some not so nice areas. Pampa, TX for instance.

Funny enough after flying cargo you will get aggravated by lazy CAs. For example tons of CAs have no idea what the requirements are for needing an alternate (domestic or flag) and what the weather is required to be at the alternate (C055). These types of things were pounded into my head at every training event and were asked in my orals on every checkride at AMF. Dispatchers aren't perfect. This includes 121 where they have fancy computer programs and certificates.
 
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The further away from a main hub you are the better your schedule will be. In short, stay away from CVG.

Any other base seems just fine on the schedule front. Just be prepared to live in some not so nice areas. Pampa, TX for instance.

Funny enough after flying cargo you will get aggravated by lazy CAs. For example tons of CAs have no idea what the requirements are for needing an alternate (domestic or flag) and what the weather is required to be at the alternate (C055). These types of things were pounded into my head at every training event and were asked in my orals on every checkride at AMF. Dispatchers aren't perfect. This includes 121 where they have fancy computer programs and certificates.
Sadly this is very true. Most of the captains I flew with didn't know what C077 or C055 even were. In regional land, well at least at the one I had a misspent youth at, if it wasn't for dispatchers who hopefully know the regs damn near 100% of flights would depart illegally unless the weather just happens to be perfect that day
If you can't recite those 2 ops specs from memory, you have no business flying for a domestic certificated carrier, IMO.

Bottom line though, is if you want to fly 121, fly 121. You will be a better pilot for flying freight, I promise that, but you have to figure out if that is worth the reduction in seniority and likelihood that getting hired by a major is further down the road when you inevitably end up at a regional anyways.
 
Honestly not chasing a paycheck. I'm 31 after a late twenties career change. Yes money is good, but seriously say it takes 9 years to get to a major, that's still a 25 year gig, I'm not that greedy. Never really understood the hurry up to the regionals mentality, I'm just looking for the next step. I appreciate everyone's input!
 
Also keep in mind that freight can take a long time to build a competitive amount of flight time. At AMF, the average flight time per month can be as low as 10 hours a week. Or it can be as high as 25-30 hours a week if you go to a higher flight time/run base. (SJU, BQN, MIA)

Yes, connections get you places, but I feel like a minimum of 4000 hours TT is needed. As of late, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant are realistic to get to from freight. From Ameriflight at least. Spirit and Frontier want higher time it seems. At least when it comes to us freight dudes. Most other decent 121 shops are still ignoring us. Their loss! :)

You'll be about equal in pay here with the regionals if you upgrade quickly, and whatever regional you're comparing has a longer upgrade time. Year 1 was 33k, year 2 was 55k at AMF for me. Year 3 might be 71. Or 60 if I don't get what I want...

Freight isn't a bad way to spend a couple years.(I wouldn't do more than 2 years unless you're offered something unique) I'm still confident that more and more will go straight to something decent in 121 if they want to. Nevermind the fact that those that go 91/135 almost always find something great that may not have been an option as a 121 guy. As long as nothing drastic happens to the industry, I don't feel a specific path is going to be required much longer.

I really only know about Ameriflight. There are 121 feeders as well. Mountain Air Cargo, Empire, ect.. They may have an easier time moving on. I don't know. They pay less than we do now though. Encore (a 135 out of Sioux Falls) still pays the highest. 70k starting I think
 
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I'll answer these factually for you, since I work at AMF. Yes. I actually LIKE what I do. Mostly. But, having spent time playing in the desert of Iraq, and the mountains of Afghanistan "suck" is a relative word, I suppose.

1. IF you are seeking JUST being hired into the 99, Metro, or 1900, forget the notion of picking a base. You go where the airplane is. As of today, March 22, 2015, you can get hired into the 99 in Albuquerque. For SURE. Metro in Buffalo, or Cincy. Buffalo is Buffalo, and the sked in Cincy BLOWS. This fits the Rule of 3. You can pick only 2 of the 3, QoL, Equipment, or Pay. I picked QoL, and pay by default. I live in Phoenix, flying the Chieftain. I love the airplane, and like being home. That's me. If I were 25 and wanted to travel the world still, I'd have picked the Metro in Omaha, or Buffalo, and done that. They even tried to talk me into taking the upgrade. Wasn't for me.

2. As for people saying that the pay sucks; it's laughable when it's coming from a CRJ FO at a Regional. We start 1900 and Metro guys at 47. 99 is less (around 40?, I think? others can comment on that), but there's a Turbine Retention bonus paid based on the number of years you've been at AMF. We have an Equipment Sign-On bonus as well. That bonus is out in 2 installments; after completion of training and after your 6 mos of employment.

3. AMF pilots log (generally) around 50-60 hours a month. The day you finish training, you start building Turbine PIC. That's not going to happen at a regional.

4. GO WHERE YOU WILL BE HAPPY. Pick the base where you want to be. Don't come here picking equipment in Buffalo, expecting to get to Seattle in 6mos. You will hate your life. And be disappointed. This leads to the sked sucking tidbit. I work six days a week, but it's Tu-Fr, half days Mon and Sat. I get paid for all 6 days. I get paid the overtime for the 6th day. You get more money for going TDY (I still haven't figured out how to love ABQ.), and Per Diem rate is $35.

Upgrade: We had a kid volunteer to go TDY for something like 24 weeks. He had no prior P135 experience, got hired into the Chieftain, and was just upgraded to the Metro. He's been here 6 or 7 mos. I just missed an in base 1900 bid by a couple of slots. I've been at AMF 3 mos.

Like everything, there is suck in it. It doesn't matter how cool something seems, there is always some suck in it. The level of suck at AMF is higher than necessary. Those stories are best for beers, but, the problems are so embedded into the culture of the organization that to change them would be incredibly painful for all involved. And, they don't want to change it. But, again, best for beers.

Honestly, I'd look at flying EMS. @z987k and @ppragman can talk to you at length about some place that would be far more attractive for a couple of years than AMF.
 
That's exactly the info I was looking for. As far as I'm concerned I've worked a multitude of jobs and there is no perfect job. No Iraq for this guy, but I do know what crap work is. I still have a few months plus the company I'm currently at put more on the table for me to mull over. I haven't considered EMS, but from what I understand that is some REAL on call.
 
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I like the idea of getting 1000tpic from amf And then leaving. The thing is, where will you go assuming you want to go 121. Going back to a regional and making half what I was making at amf doesn't sound too appealing. I also don't believe you can make it to the legacies from 135, not amf at least.
 
That's exactly the info I was looking for. As far as I'm concerned I've worked a multitude of jobs and there is no perfect job. No Iraq for this guy, but I do know what crap work is. I still have a few months plus the company I'm currently at put more on the table for me to mull over. I haven't considered EMS, but from what I understand that is some REAL on call.
EMS is not time building, and you're 1200 hours short of mins for EMS anyways.
 
Honestly, can you stick it out at your current job and upgrade? If you can get a CE560XL type out of them, you can skip AMF and the regionals all together. In a couple of years if you build some good jet time, you could get snatched up by one of the lower nationals (Frontier, Allegiant) quite easily. Or you can go fractional like NetJets. I had a buddy at my last job flying XLs go to United so it is totally possible. I know there are a bunch of really really crappy jet jobs out there so I am not sure what your pay or QOL is but I can probably promise you that AMF won't be better.
 
You could also get into the Brasilia in less than 2 years if you want to. I did, but BQN(Aguadilla, PR) and maybe CVG now seem to be the only two bases with high enough turnover now to allow that to happen.

BQN is the best base IMO. 3 weeks vacation(because of PR law), 10 hour days, international experiance, rum rum rum! Monthly flight time is around 100 hours if you want it. Turnover will get you in the Brasilia (real crew time, in both seats if you want) pretty quickly. Outbound flights are redeyes, so if you're trying to get home, you can get almost anywhere by noon.

It's even better when we're staffed heavy. Right now we're not and PR is kind of a pain in the ass working 5 days a week. Stuff isn't open late and many necessities close by noon on Saturday.

As already alluded to, there are many ways to skin the cat here, and I imagine at other places too. YMMV
 
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