Regional Airline Pilot Life Review v2

[woutlaw]

Its been 2.5 years since I was first hired by a regional airline. Before the airlines I worked a good paying desk job for a large company.....

Great post.

I made a similar switch 8 years ago (left a good paying corporate job that just wasn't satisfying any more) and don't have a single regret.

I'd echo all of your high points, particularly the bit about not taking the job home. By the time I'm driving away from the airport I've left even the worst work day behind me, something that never happened in my prior career. Trust me, that freedom is priceless and it more than makes up for the hit in pay.

After 2 years as a full-time flight instructor and 5 1/2 as a freight dog I'm finishing up (hopefully ) class at a regional.

Going through a 121 ground school on a fancy-pants jet for the first time at 47 is a challenge, no doubt. (So you young guys understand, we old farts need glasses to read, don't learn quite as quickly or quite have the reaction time we once did but we make up for it all and then some through guile and experience. It'll happen to you too someday, if you're lucky enough to make it that long.)

I loved every day as a freight pilot, even the really bad ones, and I'm pretty certain I'll enjoy airline life similarly.

Yeah, every job has it's downsides, that's why they call it "work." But having done other things in life, flying is a pretty sweet gig.

It's been an interesting adventure to date and whatever lies ahead -- good, bad, ugly -- is almost certainly still better than being stuck in an office.

 

[andre2041]

The bottom line is that you will never know if this job is for you unless you try it out.

This is the reason why I am still going full steam ahead with my time building! I figure that I will never forgive myself for not trying and seeing if the lifestyle actually suits me. Everyone is different and like you said, and for some people it can really work out. Thanks for the great post!

 

[Justin S]

Awesome posts guys; I needed this as I am in between sticking with desk or coming back to the 121 world. Being a former Colgan guy I never did overnights so with a new baby I worry about being gone all the time. I sure do miss the great crews even if we did complain about small stuff.

 

[Adler]

4) Promotion is on auto pilot. No need to brown nose and suck up to your boss. When your number is up you become captain.

This was probably my biggest problem working at the regionals – I had no sense of purpose. I could work my ass off, or I could be the laziest person at the company, and nobody cared one way or another.

I agree with you on most of the other points. I really miss the schedule. Bidding multiple days off and nonreving all over the world...that pretty much made up for the low pay. I miss it tons.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

This was probably my biggest problem working at the regionals – I had no sense of purpose. I could work my ass off, or I could be the laziest person at the company, and nobody cared one way or another.

I agree with you on most of the other points. I really miss the schedule. Bidding multiple days off and nonreving all over the world...that pretty much made up for the low pay. I miss it tons.

Welcome to the airlines. Effort and ability matter far less than seniority. As long as you meet the minimum level, you are good. In fact, effort and ability are discouraged in many cases.

 

[desertdog71]

It took me a while but it slowly became clear that the "company" cares only about what is easily measurable. Kinda like public school. So pushing from the gate on time trumps everything else.

 

[GypsyPilot]

The biggest thing for me to get used to at the airlines was realizing there's nothing I can do about those around me that are incompetent or uncaring.

But I still take pride in giving my best effort. Nobody can take that away from me.

 

[dasleben]

I would hate a seniority based promotion system - feeling like your work ethic doesn't matter in the long run ... not for me I guess.

It is frustrating, though I have to support seniority-based upgrades because I don't feel there's really another good way to do it.

But, it's a blessing for those who have seniority, and a curse for those who don't. You could be the hardest working, most experienced guy in the airline, but you'll still be pulling gear for years. You'll be sitting next a guy who can barely keep it in the flight director, who happens to make more than double your income. It's stifling for those who are above average, and great for those who are below average. But, in a company with thousands of pilots, how would you keep track of who you should promote other than seniority?

Sad to say though, having pulled gear for most of my career due to nothing more than poor timing, it's one of the reasons I don't care to do this until I'm 65. Aptitude and hard work mean nothing as long as you can manage to not fail your PCs. The work becomes very unfulfilling.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

I've been at RAH now for over 2 years now. My lifestyle is decent and I enjoy the job, I'm 30 and single. I had a very rocky road prior to working here (and first year FO pay here). Third year FO finally makes me feel like more than a glorified meter maid/burger flipper but still leaves a lot to be desired. RAH is only one of three income streams for me though.

The scheduling flexibility and travel benefits are the best part IMO. The flying is a little monotonous also.

And one last thing, seniority based up upgrade is the way to go. Merit based upgrades are subjective and result in morons in the left seat sometimes also.

 

[Seggy]

Colgan had merit based upgrades for a little while. As one who had to 'interview' to upgrade (I kid you not) seniority based upgrades are the way to go.

If you have a good training department on property the 'problems' you see with the seniority based upgrade system are minimized.

 

[Maurus]

Sad to say though, having pulled gear for most of my career due to nothing more than poor timing,

Can't really say you had bad timing. Bad timing is what @ZapBrannigan went through. You have been building heavy overwater experience while your XJT classmates are just now finally upgrading. Other than a lack of TPIC I think you are doing just fine considering your age.

 

[dasleben]

Can't really say you had bad timing. Bad timing is what @ZapBrannigan went through. You have been building heavy overwater experience while your XJT classmates are just now finally upgrading. Other than a lack of TPIC I think you are doing just fine considering your age.

Fair enough. But let me have my whine and cheese party every once in a while.

 

[Justin S]

Monotonous...,lol try a desk job!

 

[GypsyPilot]

Can't really say you had bad timing. Bad timing is what @ZapBrannigan went through. You have been building heavy overwater experience while your XJT classmates are just now finally upgrading. Other than a lack of TPIC I think you are doing just fine considering your age.

Seriously. I'm a few years older than him, and I think I've paid my dues. I've been flying for over 10 years, and have instructed, flown charter, flown corporate, and have been at the regionals for over 3 years in the right seat. This is despite having an engineering degree, no checkride busts, several LORs and connections at the majors, and I have applied EVERYWHERE without even a shot at an interview yet. It seems every time I get close to minimums, they change (jetBlue). My career progression quite honestly sucks and is frustrating at times.

But you know what? It could be a lot worse. For a regional my job is pretty stable and I'm treated ok. My life is not defined by work, but by what I do with my life outside of work. It's all about perspective @dasleben. Were I work now, we have captains with thousands of hours of TPIC and 10+ years experience trying to get on at Atlas. Just something to consider.

 

[surreal1221]

Just something to keep in perspective, for those of us who are no longer trying to live on first year peanut wages (vis a vis those of us at the >6 yr FO range with no upgrade on the immediate horizon) this really isn't that bad of a deal right now.

When I left the Air Force in 07 and made this career change and I set career benchmarks on where I needed to be if I were to stay in this career, I am right on schedule. At times it is difficult for me to remind myself to not get into an impatient posture, but for the most part I am enjoying the work I do and the challenges that present themselves.

The only ones I feel bad for are the poor slums still hanging around GLA. Otherwise, for the most part, it's not too terribly bad out there. But, I do recognize that everyone's living circumstances are different.

Nevertheless, before I get jumped - I am not one of those "just happy to have a job" mindless boobs either. Now that that's out there, our time will come. A massive generational shift is occurring in this profession. The initial ebb and flow will be somewhat frustrating, but the large tsunami wave will draft a great many of us out to sea where the fish and mermaids are plentiful.

Stay safe, stay happy, and drink just a little bit.

Cheers!

 

[dasleben]

Seriously. I'm a few years older than him, and I think I've paid my dues. I've been flying for over 10 years, and have instructed, flown charter, flown corporate, and have been at the regionals for over 3 years in the right seat. This is despite having an engineering degree, no checkride busts, several LORs and connections at the majors, and I have applied EVERYWHERE without even a shot at an interview yet. It seems every time I get close to minimums, they change (jetBlue). My career progression quite honestly sucks and is frustrating at times.

But you know what? It could be a lot worse. For a regional my job is pretty stable and I'm treated ok. My life is not defined by work, but by what I do with my life outside of work. It's all about perspective @dasleben. Were I work now, we have captains with thousands of hours of TPIC and 10+ years experience trying to get on at Atlas. Just something to consider.

I see what you guys are saying, but don't let anyone tell you that my current place came without its fair share of dues-paying. I instructed, never got off short-call at a regional before being furloughed, checked the SPIFR box for a while, then flew for a real rat-bag ACMI carrier (we all know which one) before getting on where I'm at. While I'm 30 now, I started flying at 18, and got my first flying job at 20. I didn't just roll out of school and into Atlas last year.

I'm thankful to be at a decent place, but it's not without its share of problems. While some of those may seem to be #uptownproblems to some, some of those issues are causing tens of thousands of dollars in pay loss due to seniority issues and scheduling problems. The big issue right now facing the 767 pilots (myself included), is that we all have 100+ pilots junior to us who are being hired into higher-paying equipment, which we're ineligible to bid. This is costing us, well, a lot of money. We also have zero pay protection, so that 80 hour line you were just awarded? It can be dropped to the 62 hour min guarantee for no reason at all. If you're, say, a 3rd year 747 FO, you're losing a couple grand that month off your bid award. Too bad, so sad.

So, I want to be clear that while Atlas would be a step up from a regional, that fact does not mean this place is without serious issues that need to be addressed, or that we're all just happy to be here. Not in the slightest. We're working hard to improve things, and while I hope the guys/gals you know get a call, they should know that coming here doesn't mean they "made it."

And no, I never got a call from JetBlue either.

 

[GypsyPilot]

Hey, I know you paid your dues man. I'm just saying a lot of us have too, and are still waiting for the next step up. I respect that you have issues over there too.

 

[Trip7]

Even with upgrades being seniority based, there are Plenty of merit based promotion opportunity within the airline system. Line Check Airman, Sim Instructor, Chief Pilot, VP of Flight Operations etc etc are are all merit based positions. Plenty of merit based positions on the union side too. I've seen Captains and FOs at all levels progress within a company based on merit.

The President of ExpressJet started as a line pilot now he's a multi millionaire.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Seriously. I'm a few years older than him, and I think I've paid my dues. I've been flying for over 10 years, and have instructed, flown charter, flown corporate, and have been at the regionals for over 3 years in the right seat. This is despite having an engineering degree, no checkride busts, several LORs and connections at the majors, and I have applied EVERYWHERE without even a shot at an interview yet. It seems every time I get close to minimums, they change (jetBlue). My career progression quite honestly sucks and is frustrating at times.

But you know what? It could be a lot worse. For a regional my job is pretty stable and I'm treated ok. My life is not defined by work, but by what I do with my life outside of work. It's all about perspective @dasleben. Were I work now, we have captains with thousands of hours of TPIC and 10+ years experience trying to get on at Atlas. Just something to consider.

I don't like that term 'paid my dues.' There's no such thing. It's all timing and luck in this industry. Know the right person(s), good connections, and you can be at Delta with just 2,000 hrs. Or United. I remember hearing that I had to "pay my dues" when I was a regional FO and that was from a CA who was a CA because he was hired 7 months before me. Before that he was Gulfstream. "Pay your dues" is just a trite phrase. No one can define it because there really isn't a set definition of having paid dues. In one person's career they may feel they have paid dues and then another person thinks no way. That's why I don't use that phrase. I don't know where you work, but keep in mind, despite the hiring just starting to pickup, it's still a tough job environment. You mentioned CAs from your airline trying to go to Atlas, we've had two pilots I know of go to Atlas from VX this year alone. With Evergreen and World folding, it's still a tough environment at the likes of Atlas and Omni in terms of getting hired there.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I see what you guys are saying, but don't let anyone tell you that my current place came without its fair share of dues-paying. I instructed, never got off short-call at a regional before being furloughed, checked the SPIFR box for a while, then flew for a real rat-bag ACMI carrier (we all know which one) before getting on where I'm at. While I'm 30 now, I started flying at 18, and got my first flying job at 20. I didn't just roll out of school and into Atlas last year.

I'm thankful to be at a decent place, but it's not without its share of problems. While some of those may seem to be #uptownproblems to some, some of those issues are causing tens of thousands of dollars in pay loss due to seniority issues and scheduling problems. The big issue right now facing the 767 pilots (myself included), is that we all have 100+ pilots junior to us who are being hired into higher-paying equipment, which we're ineligible to bid. This is costing us, well, a lot of money. We also have zero pay protection, so that 80 hour line you were just awarded? It can be dropped to the 62 hour min guarantee for no reason at all. If you're, say, a 3rd year 747 FO, you're losing a couple grand that month off your bid award. Too bad, so sad.

Dude, even we have (some) pay protection, usually to the original award for lineholders. Yeowch.

Are you guys seat-locked onto the 7ER 767 for a defined period, or are you permanently ineligible to move to the whale? Our seat locks are pretty serious here (2 years for new hires now) unless the company need determines otherwise, but the way that the little hairs are standing up on the back of my hand tells me that the company need will be determining otherwise Real Soon Now.