Likelihood of getting a job at the Majors/Corporate

[maniacmatt]

If I were to start my private next week...(being 18 and a senior in HS), and finish it over the summer...then go to college and get a degree in Business Management while working on my other ratings as often as possible, with the hopes of CFIing during my junior/senior year...

How likely is it that I'll ever get a job with the Majors or a Corporate equivalent? Looking at the industry right now...things aren't seeming too hopeful. Is right now a bad time to start?

Basically right now I need to choose between the situation described above, and a nicer out of state business school. If I decide to go with option #1, I want to get started ASAP. I put it off this summer to "enjoy being a teenager", which I think was smart...but now I'm starting to think career-wise with college coming up next year.

I was getting really hyped up a few days ago reading the stories and comments from people on this site, but have been down in the dumps lately after reading this.

People on the above post are talking about being extremely fortunate to even get to a Regional, let alone a major or corporate. Yes...I love to fly. But I also love having a somewhat stable life. I'm 100% willing to go through all the BS and sacrifices if it will pay off (not in terms of money, in terms of acheiving my dreams and job satisfaction) in the end.

Sorry for ranting on and on. This has just been on my mind and driving me nuts...I just needed to get it off my chest a little bit. So...thanks.

 

[CaliforniaSurfer]

matt,

Gosh, you're in a great position I think. I would definitely recommend getting a solid, non-aviation degree. Something you could do for a living, support yourself/family on incase the aviation gig doesn't pan out. It leaves you an "out".

In the mean time, do your training and go for it man. Get all your ratings while going to school and try to instruct during your senior year or something. But, keep them grades up.

Best of luck buddy

Surf

 

[flyitup]

Matt,

The first thing you need to do is decide how bad you want to fly for a living. Take this decision very seriously, in fact, I would recommend getting out a sheet of paper and listing all the pro’s and con’s for each option. Don’t simply think about the short term benefits, but also try to envision and take into account your future plans. Wife? Kids?

If you really feel like flying for a living is what you were born to do, then by all means go for it! Like my instructor says, “Someone’s got to fly those airplanes, why not me?”

One final thing to consider… What will make you, Matt, happy and ultimately successful? Take a minute to read and ponder the quote in my signature below…

Good luck with whichever route you take!

Ryan

 

[aloft]

Timing and age-wise, you're in perfect shape. The aviation industry is cyclical, pretty much ebbs and flows with the economy in general. (College is a much better place to be right now than out in the workforce for sure.) Get started with your training now, and when the majors are ready to resume hiring in 7 or 10 years--and they will; people will always need transit, and pilots will always retire--you'll be ripe for the picking. doing the CFI thing while you're in college is a great way to go, as you're pretty much already in poverty mode as a college student, and by the time you graduate, you'll likely have the experience necessary to get a regional or charter job.

I *wish* I was 18 with the dream of an aviation career on my mind; back when I was that age, the vision standards were more stringent for second- and first-class certificates, so it wasn't an option for me (this was the pre-LASIK era). Taking on flying as a second career at my age (35), the best I can possibly hope for is the left seat of a 737; at your age, you've still got a shot at that 747 or 777 or A380 or whatever Boeing dreams up next and the megadollars that come with it.

But the thing is, you've really got to want it. Pursuing a flying career isn't really a hardship if you've got the "bug" like many of us have, but without it, the sacrifices may not seem worth it--particularly once you've got a business degree and your classmates are making $60k/yr while you're still bringing in $19k as a first-year regional FO.

Only you can answer the question of if it's worth it or not.

 

[jtrain609]

Heya,


You're not too far behind me. I'm currently a sophmore in college, and I fully plan on being able to get a job doing some kind of flying job once I get out of college (which might be anywhere from 3 to 5 years down the road). I'm going the non-aviation degree route right now (studying political science) as a backup, and I get a rating or so done every summer. By the time I start my junior year I should be a CFI and hopefully I can do that part time when I'm in school. It'd certinally be a nice job.

As everyone says, it's all about how much you want it. If you really want to fly for a living you'll be able to justify the sacrafices you make.

Cheers


John Herreshoff

 

[panampilot]

I was reading this post below from the hyperlink. How does somebody go from loving flying to this point? That really saddens me to think someday I might have this same attitude. Take a read:

Definitely would not do it again.

Career changer with 16 years to give before age 60. Joined a regional in the last bubble and everyone was upgrading in 16 months and moving to majors in 3 years.

I wouldn't wish this job on a convicted felon. Let's see: Paid peanuts, 20 days away from home a month, schedules that either have me working 15 hour duty days with 7.59 flight time or have me sitting in a second (no make that third) class hotel room in BF Egypt for hours on end. I've been through captains that think they invented flying and FO's that act like they've never seen an object with wings on. My Ops specs relieve me of any real flying decision making - just keep the little yellow line on the little pink or green line. However, if any ramper, gate agent, maintenance, commissary, fueler or ATC person fouls up a trip, I get called into management and berated because I'm the only one with a college degree that they can yell at. Training is a joke and I get to do two jeopardy events a year in a Level D Sim that flies more like a Grob motorglider than the Jet it supposedly represents.

I used to see sunrises and sunsets, layers of clouds, beautiful vistas. Now I see EFIS screens and wonder why the person next to me can't buy deodorant and mouthwash.

I did not look closely enough at the grass on the other side of the mountain. With stars in my eyes, I thought of making in excess of 80K with a major in a couple of years. The reality is that I will probably never see a major and I will never see a paycheck bigger than my last job. I'm stuck in a young person's purgatory. The 20 year olds around me have that goal of getting out of this place and moving on to a better life. I'm stuck with the knowledge that this is as good as its gonna get - flying a cold, lifeless jet that might as well be a bus. I get to work at my trade in three second intervals as landing is the only skill set the company needs from me.

Want to enjoy flying - get a good job - buy a Pitts, Extra 300 or an Acroduster and fly your brains out. If you want to watch a computer fly a plane for you - welcome aboard.

 

[ready2fly]

There are folks like this in EVERY profession.

 

[DE727UPS]

Matt,

If you let a few negative posts get you "down in the dumps", you've got a big problem. I went back and read that thread from flightinfo. There were at least three positives for each negative response. Heck, I fly with guys making well over 200K a year that do nothing but bitch and moan about their jobs....pilots just do that. You need to take money out of the equation and decide how bad you still want to pursue the career. Never be a pilot cause you think you'll be a highly paid rich dude someday, but do it for the love of flying. I think you have the right ideas about not getting an aviation degree and getting your CFI ASAP. It's a huge challenge to persue a flying career and you'll make many sacrifices but I gotta say, for me, it's been very well worth it.

 

[E_Dawg]

As for the likelihood of actually getting a job... my whole reasoning is that as long as the job exists, people will be needed. I might as well be one of those people.

 

[maniacmatt]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone!

[ QUOTE ]
If you let a few negative posts get you "down in the dumps", you've got a big problem. I went back and read that thread from flightinfo. There were at least three positives for each negative response.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what, you're right. I need to learn not to listen so easily to the naysayers. Looking back on the post...I was so focused on trying to get a feel for the "ugly" side that I didn't stop and notice all the positive replies as well. Even people who were disgrunteld said "Wouldnt change it for a thing".

DE727UPS, thanks for pointing that out. I really appreciate it.

I suppose I'm just a worryer....and choosing a lifelong career/lifestyle is something that is just WAY too easy to worry about.

 

[ed207063]

Gotta agree with you there, manic. I'm an almost-30-year-old potential career changer, and am in worry mode myself right now. I know I'm gonna get at least my PPL/Inst., but with all the worries about where the industry is or is heading (especially if the little dictator decides to invade Iraq), ya gotta wonder if there will be any jobs available in the regionals/majors, and will it be worth it to drop several thousand dollars for all the other required stuff. Hopefully, the people in power(?) wil come to their senses, the industry enjoys a HUGE rebound, and everyone who wants a flying job will get one. <crosses fingers>

 

[flyguy]

I'm almost in the same position as you are. I'm 23 and just about to finnish my degree. Although I have always been very interrested in aviation I didn't decide for sure that I wanted to be a pilot until after I started college. For financial reasons I decided to wait until after college to begin training and then train full time. I graduate in May and will begin flying shorlty after. I figure now is as good a time as any to get training out of the way. Since you and I aren't really in a rush to get hired before we get close to retirement age, we've got plenty of time to get plenty of experience before the majors start hiring again.

Here's somehting else to think about. Not only are we not in a rush to get hired by a major before getting close to retirement age, we are also not in a rush to find the perfect career. I do feel that there is nothing else I can see myself doing, no matter what the cost. But at the same time if it turns out to not be what I expected, I'll still have plenty of time to find a more suiting career. The opposite is not as true though. If I persue another career now and decide later that I would rather fly for a living, I may not have time to ever put myself in a situation where I will have a successfull career for very long before retirement (remember senority). I can tell you that right now there is no other career that I would look back on and wonder "what-if" if I choose not to give it a shot.

 

[flyitup]

[ QUOTE ]
But at the same time if it turns out to not be what I expected, I'll still have plenty of time to find a more suiting career. The opposite is not as true though. If I persue another career now and decide later that I would rather fly for a living, I may not have time to ever put myself in a situation where I will have a successfull career for very long before retirement (remember senority).

[/ QUOTE ]

EXCELLENT point!

 

[maniacmatt]

Ditto flyitup.

I hadn't thought about it that way!

 

[Hootie]

I definately wouldn't give up the dream of flying for a career, .
Buuuuuuttttt........ if I could give you any advice it would be to stay out of an airplane for a couple years. I don't want to be a downer, but don't be like me, don't even get near one till you have that four year in hand. I had the same idea you had when I was 18. I thought it would be really neat to go to college and I thought flying at the same time would be sooo cool. And girls will just flock to me because I fly a moped with wings. And when I am a junior I will be a cfi and Ill go to class 9am-1pm and then Ill flight instruct till 2pm-6pm. what a cool part time job, and I get 25 bucks an hour? wow, even more chicks. Well now I am 21 and I am a junior and I am a CFI. And the dream is nothing like that. I just worry now about staying current flight instructing with my 1.5 hours a month dual. What I never understand is people on the internet telling people now is a good time to build time for the regionals when the pipeline starts moving again. When its stopped up like this everybody gets kicked down a career step and that means all the regional guys flight instructing. There is about a 1 to 1 cfi to student ratio, its not pretty.
anyway, sorry I am just venting, but I thought you should hear it. Just get your degree , HAVE FUN IN COLLEGE, without worrying about getting cash so you can worry about your instrument checkride, then in four years pick up your ratings full time in about 6-8 months, things should be picking up by then.

 

[maniacmatt]

Hmm. That doesn't sound too promising! I wonder if it would be any different in 2-3 years?

Also, just cause I'm curious, where are you located?

 

[maniacmatt]

[ QUOTE ]
if I could give you any advice it would be to stay out of an airplane for a couple years. I don't want to be a downer, but don't be like me, don't even get near one till you have that four year in hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Well now I am 21 and I am a junior and I am a CFI. And the dream is nothing like that. I just worry now about staying current flight instructing with my 1.5 hours a month dual. What I never understand is people on the internet telling people now is a good time to build time for the regionals when the pipeline starts moving again. When its stopped up like this everybody gets kicked down a career step and that means all the regional guys flight instructing. There is about a 1 to 1 cfi to student ratio, its not pretty.


[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone care to back this up or refute it? If thats really the case then I'm not so sure I wanna start my private in a week or so.

 

[flyitup]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if I could give you any advice it would be to stay out of an airplane for a couple years. I don't want to be a downer, but don't be like me, don't even get near one till you have that four year in hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Well now I am 21 and I am a junior and I am a CFI. And the dream is nothing like that. I just worry now about staying current flight instructing with my 1.5 hours a month dual. What I never understand is people on the internet telling people now is a good time to build time for the regionals when the pipeline starts moving again. When its stopped up like this everybody gets kicked down a career step and that means all the regional guys flight instructing. There is about a 1 to 1 cfi to student ratio, its not pretty.


[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone care to back this up or refute it? If thats really the case then I'm not so sure I wanna start my private in a week or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt,

We all have, and are entitled to our opinions, and he was just sharing his. Does that mean this scenario will happen exactly the same way for you? Of course not, there are many variables that come into play and they may or may not affect you in the same way.

For what it's worth, my advice is to focus on school, but there is really no reason you can't begin to work on your ratings as well, I am.

The reality is that YOU and you alone need to decide what's best for you're given situation.

Good luck my friend, and be sure to keep us updated!

 

[derg]

There are only two groups of people that say that you don't need to make a four year degree as a hyper-important goal in your aviation career.

(a) a pilot that was hired prior to 9-11-01 or hired shortly thereafter

(b) an overzealous flight school marketer that only has his eye on his employer's bottom line.

Think about it...

 

[flyitup]

I may have been misunderstood in my previous post…

I didn’t intend to downplay the importance of a college degree if your goal is to become a professional pilot. In fact, I would highly suggest a degree in an unrelated field, but there is simply no reason, in my humble opinion, that you can’t work on your ratings at the same time…