Am I nuts?

[Roger Roger]

Our training department has been putting a big emphasis on mentorship lately. I think it's an FAA emphasis item as well. I'd guess that we have a lot less experience in the right seat presently than you did. I primarily fly with the last couple hundred numbers on the seniority list. So that's when I bring mentorship up. My seniority or better and there are 800 FOs senior to me systemwide, I don't mention it.

I think it’s definitely a thing, with the influx of people who have either a) 1-2 years at the regionals or b) higher total experience but zero prior 121, mentorship is a yuuuge bigly deal the next few years. My class is an example of this. Which is why I appreciate places like jc.

Hah, in a surprising turn of events, I actually knew about the marker test. But only because it initially surprised me too when I saw it done/heard it.

I think the use of checklists in lieu of memory items is probably the correct decision, when there are 150+ lives in the back expecting you to get it right. I see Cherokee's argument, and at some point, your repetition-based memory will turn into an informal flow, but it probably still warrants verifying the written procedure when you are inexperienced/newer to the aircraft.

Maybe I’m just grossly underestimating the number of bleeds off takeoffs the average line pilot does

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I think it’s definitely a thing, with the influx of people who have either a) 1-2 years at the regionals or b) higher total experience but zero prior 121, mentorship is a yuuuge bigly deal the next few years. My class is an example of this. Which is why I appreciate places like jc.

Maybe I’m just grossly underestimating the number of bleeds off takeoffs the average line pilot does

I'm still going to ask if you feel like dealing with mentorship today. 99.99% chance I already know if the person will be receptive to it but I just think taking a step to be respectful doesn't hurt.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

IMO it’s not direct thing to ask?


I’ll just do it subtly. Like we got a write up. Hey, would you like to handle this? Some are receptive, others not.

But if know a guy is going in for upgrade, I’ll definitely push it more - a “you should know this” so you don’t get caught off guard. I will say those going in for upgrade, have been 100% receptive. And appreciative.

 

[word302]

I'm still going to ask if you feel like dealing with mentorship today. 99.99% chance I already know if the person will be receptive to it but I just think taking a step to be respectful doesn't hurt.

Honestly if you ask “if I’m receptive to mentorship” my spidey sense is already tingling that this is going to be awkward. Let it happen naturally. Sometimes situations present themselves, sometimes they don’t.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Honestly if you ask “if I’m receptive to mentorship” my spidey sense is already tingling that this is going to be awkward. Let it happen naturally. Sometimes situations present themselves, sometimes they don’t.

Yeah true. It’s never been an issue. But you’re correct


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[word302]

Yeah true. It’s never been an issue. But you’re correct


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I'm telling you if guys are telling you they aren't interested I'm not really surprised. I would likely play because I think it would hamper CRM to tell you no but I think you're kind of setting yourself up.

 

[SurferLucas]

It’s also all about tact and delivery. You can mentor without saying a word. Any FO worth their salt is making a mental list of dos and dont’s from every captain they fly with.

Some of us make actual lists…I’ve got a couple note books from my last 6 months of being an FO to upgrade, then from all my trips conducting OE, and from all my training at SJI.

I give myself 24hrs to decompress from a trip, then I jot down good things, bad things, goofy/abnormal things. How captains are, and how I could have done things better/etc.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I'm telling you if guys are telling you they aren't interested I'm not really surprised. I would likely play because I think it would hamper CRM to tell you no but I think you're kind of setting yourself up.

I think it was just one guy who like me was called off reserve. He wasn’t too stoked about it. I think I just didn’t ask him anything and just said you do you.

Everyone else has been super receptive.


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[T/O w/FSII]

I'm telling you if guys are telling you they aren't interested I'm not really surprised. I would likely play because I think it would hamper CRM to tell you no but I think you're kind of setting yourself up.

Yea it’s incredibly weird. Beef, if you are truly basing it on “never being an issue” that’s because you are the captain and your FO’s don’t want to make it weird.

Don’t ask people if they want to be mentored. That’s strange. Mentoring comes naturally. That’s like being mid make out with someone and asking if you can use tongue.

 

[SteveC]

Mentoring may well be like numerous other things in aviation - people are all different, and a technique that works well for one type may back fire for another. Just because a particular technique would blow up in my face doesn’t preclude it from working well for someone else.

Not an area for absolutist pre-judgement IMHO.

 

[Ian_J]

“Do you want to learn stuff or just fly the trip?” Said a regional captain to me once. I internally cringed and told him sure, I like to learn things.

“What are some considerations you’d think of for today’s flight?” Wow, that’s a really broad question. I listed off some stuff and it didn’t satisfy him.

“We have to de-ice,” He said. Well, of course, that was obvious. That was too obvious for me to even say. What a d-bag.

Ended up having a great trip with a famous JC-er despite that weird beginning.

But yeah, don’t ask if someone wants to be mentored. Just read the room and do it tactfully.

 

[word302]

Mentoring may well be like numerous other things in aviation - people are all different, and a technique that works well for one type may back fire for another. Just because a particular technique would blow up in my face doesn’t preclude it from working well for someone else.

Not an area for absolutist pre-judgement IMHO.

I don't disagree, but asking someone if they're open to mentoring isn't going to yield the results he wants in 99% of situations.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yea it’s incredibly weird. Beef, if you are truly basing it on “never being an issue” that’s because you are the captain and your FO’s don’t want to make it weird.

Don’t ask people if they want to be mentored. That’s strange. Mentoring comes naturally. That’s like being mid make out with someone and asking if you can use tongue.

You guys do an amazing job picking apart things I type without context or being there and making a massive deal about it.

I’m really the dumbass though because every time I clarify the nitpicking and shaming just gets worse and worse. I’ll never learn.


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[alaskadrifter]

You guys do an amazing job picking apart things I type without context or being there and making a massive deal about it.

I’m really the dumbass though because every time I clarify the nitpicking and shaming just gets worse and worse. I’ll never learn.


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Don’t you appreciate the mentoring???

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Some of us make actual lists…I’ve got a couple note books from my last 6 months of being an FO to upgrade, then from all my trips conducting OE, and from all my training at SJI.

I give myself 24hrs to decompress from a trip, then I jot down good things, bad things, goofy/abnormal things. How captains are, and how I could have done things better/etc.

Lucky you ain't flying with me, son! You don't have the ink for it!

 

[Dacuj]

I'm still going to ask if you feel like dealing with mentorship today. 99.99% chance I already know if the person will be receptive to it but I just think taking a step to be respectful doesn't hurt.

Mentorship is key regardless of if it's today's pilot or the pilot hired 30 years ago. We all have needed mentorship to learn and progress. We took it seriously at Envoy when I was there and went above and beyond mentoring the cadets coming in.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Mentorship is key regardless of if it's today's pilot or the pilot hired 30 years ago. We all have needed mentorship to learn and progress. We took it seriously at Envoy when I was there and went above and beyond mentoring the cadets coming in.

Sure. I also volunteer for the ALPA, pilot mentor committee.

I just didn’t word a comment well that I made about determining if mentorship is warranted before I begin in the cockpit. So people are jumping all over me here on JC.

I’m certain I have better EQ than about 90% of the pilots I’ve met and I’ve been mentoring people in aviation since 2004. Longer in other areas like mountain bike racing. It’s not hard to keep it cringe free. I just didn’t word it well.


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[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Mentorship is key regardless of if it's today's pilot or the pilot hired 30 years ago. We all have needed mentorship to learn and progress. We took it seriously at Envoy when I was there and went above and beyond mentoring the cadets coming in.

Unless they’re military rotorheads right? Then you can publicly trash them at Envoy, like you did before. Some “mentorship.”

 

[Ian_J]

Unless they’re military rotorheads right? Then you can publicly trash them at Envoy, like you did before. Some “mentorship.”

No, no. Those guys suck. They’ll never make it anywhere. 20-something “cadets” with all their experience run circles around those dudes.

 

[Dacuj]

Unless they’re military rotorheads right? Then you can publicly trash them at Envoy, like you did before. Some “mentorship.”

I've never trashed "military rotorheads." I simply said that they have a difficult time transitioning to fixed wing and 121. The cadets we were getting in could fly circles around them in sim training. I saw it time after time. I recommended a jet transition course for these guys before bringing them aboard but the suggestion wasn't taken in the end. I was simply saying that it wasn't fair for an RTP guy to be taking a slot from a cadet. Those cadets had seniority as well. Making them wait for the next class to slot some RTP guy in was unfair.