*Comair Rumot*

[wheelsup]

Guys all regionals no matter what their pay are flying 50, 70, 90, what have you planes for "regional rates" (TM). We're not even in the ballpark of the majors payscales.

so get off it..

 

[jtrain609]

Guys all regionals no matter what their pay are flying 50, 70, 90, what have you planes for "regional rates" (TM). We're not even in the ballpark of the majors payscales.

so get off it..

Actually, that's not true.

If we go off of 10 year captains rates, and look at what ExpressJet pays their captains vs. what Continental pays their narrow body 737 captains, we can see that...

Continental pays their captains $1.13 for each of those seats in the back, with a pay rate of $147 an hour and 130 seats.

ExpressJet pays their captains $1.60 for each of those seats in the back, with a pay rate of $80 an hour for 50 seats.

So if you look at it pound for pound, ExpressJet pilots are making more than Continental pilots. Are they making more raw dollars? No, of course not; you don't carry as many people, you don't get paid as much. Haul more cargo in the back? Get paid more.

Heck let's look at your company compared to your mainline carrier.

US Airways is paying their captains $0.88 per seat at 138 seats and $122 an hour.

Air Wisky is paying their captains $1.54 per seat at 50 seats and $77 an hour.

If you were to take the amount that regional pilots are paid as a ratio, and up the number of seats to the number of seats that a 737 carries, then guess what you get?

I'm guessing pretty close to the original mainline rate of $208 an hour for a 10th year captain.

So in my mind, it's a valid discussion. Pound for pound, ExpressJet pilots and Air Wisky pilots are making MORE, as a ratio of seats to hourly pay rate in a straight linear scale, as mainline pilots.

EDIT: And in looking at this, it would seem that the closest anybody comes to falling in line with the pay rates that Airways is paying their 737 captains is Comair, of all the airlines.

 

[jtrain609]

No matter what the pilot pay rate is, the airlines don't need them nearly as much any more.

The 50 seat planes will be parked before anything else. It is up to pilots to negotiate a good rate for the larger lift that will replace them.

Only true if Continental sells out their scope.

Whether they do remains to be seen.

 

[Nick]

Only true if Continental sells out their scope.

Whether they do remains to be seen.

Well, yeah. I was referring to the Comair situation mostly, where mainline already has other options available and the 50 and 70 seat airplanes have to prove themselves worthy of being kept around.

 

[jtrain609]

True, but doesn't Delta have a ratio of big RJ's to mainline aircraft? I.E. There can only be so many large RJ's, and after that Delta has to add aircraft to mainline instead of adding more 70-90 seaters?

I mean it's that or bulk up on 50 seaters.

 

[mxflyer]

some one with 500 - 1199 hours isn't worth more than 30K their first year. They aren't qualified to do anything else in aviation with that little of time.

Is any body really making a career as a regional FO? You shouldn't be so I personally think the money should go to the CA's because alot of them do make that their career or have. Thats why I'm glad the XJ payscales are the way they are to keep cast down, but its not like people are starving on our FO payscales.

You're right about 1st year pay. However, for the time between 1st year and upgrade FOs do need to make enough to...well more than survive. Especially with upgrade times as long as they are at most places.

As far as starving FOs are concerned. Ever considered that maybe the demographics of those who apply there are different. I have a very good friend at Mesaba, he loves it there. He's single from MI. I'm married with a kid. I knew that I wouldn't be able to work there, not because of 1st year pay, but because of years 2-4. I knew I wouldn't be able to live off that so I didn't bother applying. I am glad make enough to make ends meet and save a little (very little). Everybody's situation is different.

 

[kellwolf]

You're right about 1st year pay. However, for the time between 1st year and upgrade FOs do need to make enough to...well more than survive. Especially with upgrade times as long as they are at most places.

In this case, pilots are our own worst enemies. How many times have we heard "Oh, I don't care about 3rd or 4th year FO pay. I'll be a CA by then." from new guys that just got on at their first airline?

 

[jynxyjoe]

In this case, pilots are our own worst enemies. How many times have we heard "Oh, I don't care about 3rd or 4th year FO pay. I'll be a CA by then." from new guys that just got on at their first airline?

Ya hope those young guys learn something, but the ones we have at Mesaba who were/are like that are upgrading right now. It's too bad. Hopefully they'll get educated.

 

[dakovich]

I'm doing something about it all and walking away. Whats the use of a shiny new contract if someone is just going to undercut you and take it all away in a couple years anyway. Its all just so stupid. Butttttt, on the bright side of FO 1st year pay....almost all of my schooling is paid for during my furlough!!! Just got my awards today, and because I didn't make crap first year I get a bunch of assistance. Also, I think I will qualify fior HEAP and probably food stamps. LIVIN THE DREAM!

 

[Baronman]

Who is doing that?


50 seaters are a cancer.

Who? Almost everyone. Maybe they don't call it a "50 seat payrate" but what they're paying is many times either the actual 50 seat rate or a small, small margin above it. Not enough in my opinion to offset the added revenue the companies bring in. Skywest, RAH etc have made alot of money the last few years, their bread and butter being 70+ seat jets yet their pilots are no making much more than anyone else. Hopefully they wake up to the fact that the added revenues are from their work and that their pay has not yet caught up.

I would argue that pilot's attitudes towards pay and advancement are a cancer. Not an aircraft be it a 50 or 70 seater.