ATP before becoming a regional first officer?

[Bandit_Driver]

You and I worked at the same place at one point.

I can tell you they really didn't care.

At least when I had access to the information. There was a couple times, in waves for some reason, we got (further) understaffed because of the wash rate.

That is good to hear. From the limited info I had when I was there. I only recall them booting one pilot and saw them push a couple through.

We were staffed properly at one point? I must have missed that day...LOL

I remember one time getting Jr Manned by the CP and positive spaced to IAD only to find out that the flight already had an FO....Then pulling the FO off the release and putting me on it... Some of the stuff they did baffled me...

 

[N8081G]

Just remember that regardless if they want to make the minimums 1500 hrs or 15,000 hrs, do not take the more important things in life for granted when it comes to striving for that shiney jet and a sense of accomplishment while parading the airport in your pilot costume. Do not take family, your significant other, special moments and events for granted. Aviation is a very unforgiving field and often will screw you over if thats what it takes to keep things moving.

I believe that as a CFI you learn more, not only about the subjects you are teaching but moreso about yourself. Having two experienced pilots in the cockpit is a good thing and generally speaking, if you have more hours you are supposed to be more experienced. I believe professionalism as well as a great attitude is what most employers look for as well besides the amount of hrs you have. You can have well over 10,000+ hrs teaching turns around a point and S turns accross the road but if you have a stink persona, your chances of being hired is nil. So another point to consider, do not just go for the hours, also you need to handle whatever insecurities you may have and get yourself together before you embark on a journey to be an airline pilot. You will want to be a captain one day and therefore, you will have to possess leadership qualities and the ability to think on your own two feet. Instructing and making decision as early as now will condition you to be that leader who will be responsible for the lives of everyone on board.

So before some of you start fretting, think of the ATP minimums before being hired as a great thing. You'll be a better person in the long run, i promise you.

 

[Kestrel452]

I think that this is an awful idea and at the same time not such an awful idea. Me being a junior in college , I will be looking for a job ( with very little pay) by any carrier that picks me up first. I am almost done with my instrument rating and I am shelling out tons of money to complete it and have a loan set up to start the first part of my commercial. Myself and most other college kids do not have this kind of money nor do their parents, so how are these aspiring youngsters supposed to get out their into the industry quickly if they need to jump this mile stone? Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't an ATP certificate require 1,500 hrs? How are we supposed to meet that by the time we graduate? The only advantage is this will allow both pilots in the cockpit to be more experienced.

Is this seriously how most flight majors think? That is really sad.

 

[aloft]

Is this seriously how most flight majors think? That is really sad.

Probably...because that's what all the pilot mills--be they the university aviation programs or the big flight schools--are promising in their sales pitches.

And you wonder why the UAA is fighting so desperately for that exemption; who in their right mind would shell out (or worse, borrow) $200k for a mediocre education that qualifies them for nothing more than a $14/hr entry-level flying job?

 

[moxiepilot]

How are we supposed to meet that by the time we graduate? The only advantage is this will allow both pilots in the cockpit to be more experienced.

The point is is that you're not supposed to be able to meet the requirements when you graduate. Imagine a world where as a new CFI you were paid appropriately, so that by the time you have the total time you would be expecting a reasonable salary...

It could go either way with pay, but I would hope that if places couldn't hire CFI's because of being unable to take jobs because of loans, then they would raise pay. Trickle up effect.

Probably wont hapen, but never say never

 

[ClearedToTakeoff]

So question, I finally got around to reading the text of the bill, few questions:

1) H.R. 3371 officially was passed, correct? When is it enacted?
edit: nvm, just found that only house passed it.
2) I heard that this was just requiring the TT minimums to be met, so just meet 1500 TT, however reading this text that does not seem to be true. So 3 years after date of enactment, all crew members need to have an ATP, which means when and if airlines start hiring, if it's within 3 years they would probably want you showing up to the interview with the ATP cert, correct? My only concern is the XC time, unless they amend the definition of ATP XC to mirror that of 135's definition. TT won't be an issue for me, night time might a stretch but definitely easier obtained than XC (my instrument students are at night).
c) So if the above is correct, then are they looking into redefining ATP XC definition, or is it remaining?
d) Looking at the definition it sounds like they just need you to have ATP when acting as crew member, does that mean you can show up to interview with ATP minimums and get the ride along with your initial training, or does it look like those of us without ATP will be purchasing another ride?

 

[A-300F4-622R]

I think that this is an awful idea and at the same time not such an awful idea. Me being a junior in college , I will be looking for a job ( with very little pay) by any carrier that picks me up first. I am almost done with my instrument rating and I am shelling out tons of money to complete it and have a loan set up to start the first part of my commercial. Myself and most other college kids do not have this kind of money nor do their parents, so how are these aspiring youngsters supposed to get out their into the industry quickly if they need to jump this mile stone? Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't an ATP certificate require 1,500 hrs? How are we supposed to meet that by the time we graduate? The only advantage is this will allow both pilots in the cockpit to be more experienced.

Here's some tough talk and it's with all due respect. You're not qualified to be an airline pilot of any size airplane, right out of college. Just because you have your ratings, "advanced jet systems" classes and maybe even some type of "RJ course", doesn't make you qualified in reality. You might meet the airline's mins on paper, but talk to their Captains and find out what a handicap most low time F/Os truly are, and that's when nothing goes wrong. You guys need to get out in the real world, instruct, fly charter, fly in adverse weather. Get real command experience as PIC.

The cockiness and arrogance of youth combined with the brainwashing of the aviation universities and puppy mills lead to the attitude displayed by many young pilots today. The bottom line is that without real world experience, you don't know what you don't know.

 

[ClearedToTakeoff]

Here's some tough talk and it's with all due respect. You're not qualified to be an airline pilot of any size airplane, right out of college. Just because you have your ratings, "advanced jet systems" classes and maybe even some type of "RJ course", doesn't make you qualified in reality. You might meet the airline's mins on paper, but talk to their Captains and find out what a handicap most low time F/Os truly are, and that's when nothing goes wrong. You guys need to get out in the real world, instruct, fly charter, fly in adverse weather. Get real command experience as PIC.

The cockiness and arrogance of youth combined with the brainwashing of the aviation universities and puppy mills lead to the attitude displayed by many young pilots today. The bottom line is that without real world experience, you don't know what you don't know.

You ask for the unrealistic. When you got your first great flying job, did you feel like you were under qualified for it? Probably did. But you learned, did you not? The way I've seen you making posts lately, it seems like you want a captain in the right seat. Well guess what, people won't make it to captain until they've sat in the right seat and learned from the old farts. Now I don't agree a 250 hour pilot should be right seat in a jet, but I also don't agree that you need someone who's had 10,000 hours of various types of flying experience, in low weather, etc just to get the right seat job. So this ATP bill is great, because it puts a low enough minimum to get that job that's realistic. In the grand scheme of a career, 1500 hrs is nothing, it's a blink of an eye. So to need that to get your first jet job, I'm all for. However, to be greying in the hair, "been there, done that." and any other BS you want in order to qualify for the right seat, I disagree with. You don't need Captains in the right seat, you need First Officers in the right seat, someone there with the airmanship required to fly that position, but with a mentor along the way.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

You ask for the unrealistic. When you got your first great flying job, did you feel like you were under qualified for it? Probably did. But you learned, did you not? The way I've seen you making posts lately, it seems like you want a captain in the right seat. Well guess what, people won't make it to captain until they've sat in the right seat and learned from the old farts. Now I don't agree a 250 hour pilot should be right seat in a jet, but I also don't agree that you need someone who's had 10,000 hours of various types of flying experience, in low weather, etc just to get the right seat job. So this ATP bill is great, because it puts a low enough minimum to get that job that's realistic. In the grand scheme of a career, 1500 hrs is nothing, it's a blink of an eye. So to need that to get your first jet job, I'm all for. However, to be greying in the hair, "been there, done that." and any other BS you want in order to qualify for the right seat, I disagree with. You don't need Captains in the right seat, you need First Officers in the right seat, someone there with the airmanship required to fly that position, but with a mentor along the way.

You make some good points and many of my desires in a new F/O are probably unrealistic. I've seen with my own eyes jumpseating on regionals in the cockpit and talked to many regional Captains, there are MANY regional F/Os who flat out, can't fly worth a damn. They are scared of crosswinds, flying low approaches, convective weather, winter weather and just about anything else you can think of. They can spout off any technical trivia of the RJ because the took "advanced jet systems" at some Harvard of the skies. But as flyers, they suck. They suck because they never learned how to FLY. They go to some puppy mill U and just learn enough to pass checkrides in ideal flying conditions.

I don't need a 5000 or even a 10,000 hr F/O at the regionals. What I want is one that can actually fly the damn plane manually and has experience in flying in adverse conditions. I want an F/O that is an ASSET to the Captain, not a liability. Too many of today's RJs are flown essentially single pilot.

 

[etflies]

I think that this is an awful idea and at the same time not such an awful idea. Me being a junior in college , I will be looking for a job ( with very little pay) by any carrier that picks me up first. I am almost done with my instrument rating and I am shelling out tons of money to complete it and have a loan set up to start the first part of my commercial. Myself and most other college kids do not have this kind of money nor do their parents, so how are these aspiring youngsters supposed to get out their into the industry quickly if they need to jump this mile stone? Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't an ATP certificate require 1,500 hrs? How are we supposed to meet that by the time we graduate? The only advantage is this will allow both pilots in the cockpit to be more experienced.

Well, you could always work for it. Instruct, fly jumpers, if you can get a 135 job when you meet the mins, do that. Nowhere does it say you should get to, nor do you deserve the right seat in an RJ just because you are done with school with a couple hundred hours and the appropriate ratings. Expecting the job to be handed to you is foolish, I always expected to have to work for it, even when the 250hr guys were getting hired, simply because it was such an unusual practice compared to past trends.

 

[MikeOH58]

I think that this is an awful idea and at the same time not such an awful idea. Me being a junior in college , I will be looking for a job ( with very little pay) by any carrier that picks me up first. I am almost done with my instrument rating and I am shelling out tons of money to complete it and have a loan set up to start the first part of my commercial. Myself and most other college kids do not have this kind of money nor do their parents, so how are these aspiring youngsters supposed to get out their into the industry quickly if they need to jump this mile stone? Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't an ATP certificate require 1,500 hrs? How are we supposed to meet that by the time we graduate? The only advantage is this will allow both pilots in the cockpit to be more experienced.

Maybe you should have saved your money instead of buying the airline pilot costume. I mean come on man...You have been a member of JC for a while now...I'm suprised to hear this from you.

 

[JaceTheAce'sDad]

I Im curious. What school do you attend?

I'm curious too, but I think he's a bit hesitant to say anything more, poor guy. He needs to hear all this, however. You guys are doing him a great favor. It just seems harsh, sorta like Simon Cowell.

 

[N8081G]

I think he goes to Dowling College in Long Island. Figures........

 

[A-300F4-622R]

I think he goes to Dowling College in Long Island. Figures........

Please elaborate.