How to Annoy your First Officer

[ZapBrannigan]

So...let me get this straight. The mainline guys screw the industry by loosening scope. Then they want to screw the regional pilots (have priority on regional jumpseats) despite the fact that they fly within a system that mainline guys created?

(Not directed at you PhilosopherPilot - at regional guys who blame all of their woes on major guys who gave away scope almost 20 years ago in exchange for grey poupon in their crew meals or some such garbage...)

If you don't like the flying being outsourced, by all means take it back as bring those jobs up a level. Regional pilots have it bad enough as it is.

Don't be such a victim. Mainline pilots with zero vision may have started this mess, but regional guys with shiny jet syndrome have propagated it. Remember the "RJ Defense Coalition"?

If RJ guys want the flying to go back to mainline then refuse to fly it for less than the DC9, F100 rates formerly found at mainline. Don't expect mainline pilots to spend negotiating capital to improve your lot in life without any sacrifice on your part. Not that that is going to happen since every time a new big Ejet shows up some regional lowers the bar as it's pilots drool all over each other to fly it for as little pay as possible.

I find it hard to feel bad for a regional airline pilot who bids to fly a 100 seat airplane for a fraction of what I got paid to operate a 100 seat airplane at mainline in 1999. Not saying mainline guys aren't to blame. They were... way back in 1997 or so. But that's like blaming Bush for everything that's going wrong in government today. Might of been the mainline guys fault at one time, but that hasn't been the case for a long time.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

You've settled it, I need to quit my job and go fly corporate. Then maybe one day I get a job flying an RJ, where I will know how to fly smoothly.

Don't be silly. Nobody would hire you to fly corporate. ;-)

 

[GypsyPilot]

I didn't want to just come out and say it but...

Seriously though, Having done both I know I tried a little harder when I knew that the guy in the back was gonna say something to my direct supervisor (thereby impacting my next eval and ergo my next pay raise) if I bounced him around too much.

Naturally as an airline guy you try your best to be smooth, but I gave it a lot more thought when 'the man' was sitting right behind me.

Exactly. This isn't something to get upset about guys, the fact that you (Jtrain and ClarkG) actually give a crap about it tells me you guys are probably really good. It's just that I think typically the non-corporate guy is going to be more likely to be a bit rougher. Sorry this is such an upsetting topic!

 

[GypsyPilot]

Don't be such a victim. Mainline pilots with zero vision may have started this mess, but regional guys with shiny jet syndrome have propagated it. Remember the "RJ Defense Coalition"?

If RJ guys want the flying to go back to mainline then refuse to fly it for less than the DC9, F100 rates formerly found at mainline. Don't expect mainline pilots to spend negotiating capital to improve your lot in life without any sacrifice on your part. Not that that is going to happen since every time a new big Ejet shows up some regional lowers the bar as it's pilots drool all over each other to fly it for as little pay as possible.

I find it hard to feel bad for a regional airline pilot who bids to fly a 100 seat airplane for a fraction of what I got paid to operate a 100 seat airplane at mainline in 1999. Not saying mainline guys aren't to blame. They were... way back in 1997 or so. But that's like blaming Bush for everything that's going wrong in government today. Might of been the mainline guys fault at one time, but that hasn't been the case for a long time.

As a regional guy, I can't say I disagree. I'm part of the problem and I know it. I'm trying to change that (been interviewing my butt off, hopefully I have good news next week!).

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Don't be such a victim. Mainline pilots with zero vision may have started this mess, but regional guys with shiny jet syndrome have propagated it. Remember the "RJ Defense Coalition"?

If RJ guys want the flying to go back to mainline then refuse to fly it for less than the DC9, F100 rates formerly found at mainline. Don't expect mainline pilots to spend negotiating capital to improve your lot in life without any sacrifice on your part. Not that that is going to happen since every time a new big Ejet shows up some regional lowers the bar as it's pilots drool all over each other to fly it for as little pay as possible.

I find it hard to feel bad for a regional airline pilot who bids to fly a 100 seat airplane for a fraction of what I got paid to operate a 100 seat airplane at mainline in 1999. Not saying mainline guys aren't to blame. They were... way back in 1997 or so. But that's like blaming Bush for everything that's going wrong in government today. Might of been the mainline guys fault at one time, but that hasn't been the case for a long time.

I'm not being a victim here. I didn't mean that. But it is a bit unfair to say that a guy who works his ass off for 6 legs per day can't have the Jumpseat priority on his own metal.

 

[jtrain609]

Exactly. This isn't something to get upset about guys, the fact that you (Jtrain and ClarkG) actually give a crap about it tells me you guys are probably really good. It's just that I think typically the non-corporate guy is going to be more likely to be a bit rougher. Sorry this is such an upsetting topic!

It's not upsetting, it's demeaning.

Kind of like how you went to the wrong engineering program because you weren't at MIT. You know only MIT grads deserve to be engineers, right?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Agree re: jumpseat. Just keyed in on something else you said.

You respond, "actually I WASNT talking about that... But ok, let's talk about THIS entirely different topic now..."

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

As a regional guy, I can't say I disagree. I'm part of the problem and I know it. I'm trying to change that (been interviewing my butt off, hopefully I have good news next week!).

Many (most?) of us are/were regional. But mainline guys can't fault us for playing the game as we found it.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Agree re: jumpseat. Just keyed in on something else you said.

You respond, "actually I WASNT talking about that... But ok, let's talk about THIS entirely different topic now..."

Lol.

I hear ya. But I don't know how you would expect the whole industry to be different all on it's own. I was desperate for a job in 2005. ASA hired me. I played the hand I was dealt. As have most, right?

Should I have just folded?

(Not being an ass. Seriously I just don't know what else people expect the regional guys to do.)

 

[GypsyPilot]

It's not upsetting, it's demeaning.

Kind of like how you went to the wrong engineering program because you weren't at MIT. You know only MIT grads deserve to be engineers, right?

Wow, that is really a stretch. I don't agree with that at all, your analogy.

Now if you were to say a guy that had a background in research vs a guy in the field is probably better at lab work, then sure. I'd absolutely agree with that.

I've done both airline and corporate flying John. How about you?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Lol.

I hear ya. But I don't know how you would expect the whole industry to be different all on it's own. I was desperate for a job in 2005. ASA hired me. I played the hand I was dealt. As have most, right?

Should I have just folded?

Not at all. This isn't a problem one pilot could solve. What SHOULD have happened (in Mikes perfect world), is ALPA coming to the realization that scope release beyond 50 seats was a mistake. They get all ALPA carriers to agree to a minimum acceptable payrate for any hull greater than 50 pax seats. It should have been identical to the lowest payrate at mainline (which should also have been harmonized as each contract came due). The highest regional and lowest mainline pay rates should have been identical (adjusted for benefits contributions). That would remove pilot compensation as a decision for management to right size airplane to route, and would reduce the whipsaw both between major and regional and between regionals.

To do that, regional pilots would collectively have had to refuse to fly the shiny jet for less. That, as you know, wasn't likely to happen. Human nature and all.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Not at all. This isn't a problem one pilot could solve. What SHOULD have happened (in Mikes perfect world), is ALPA coming to the realization that scope release beyond 50 seats was a mistake. They get all ALPA carriers to agree to a minimum acceptable payrate for any hull greater than 50 pax seats. It should have been identical to the lowest payrate at mainline (which should also have been harmonized as each contract came due). The highest regional and lowest mainline pay rates should have been identical (adjusted for benefits contributions). That would remove pilot compensation as a decision for management to right size airplane to route, and would reduce the whipsaw both between major and regional and between regionals.

To do that, regional pilots would collectively have had to refuse to fly the shiny jet for less. That, as you know, wasn't likely to happen. Human nature and all.

Yeah. That would require a level of national unity that is impossible to comprehend.

 

[jtrain609]

Wow, that is really a stretch. I don't agree with that at all, your analogy.

Now if you were to say a guy that had a background in research vs a guy in the field is probably better at lab work, then sure. I'd absolutely agree with that.

I've done both airline and corporate flying John. How about you?

Not a bit.

But like I said, it's been well established that I'm not a very good pilot.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Yeah. That would require a level of national unity that is impossible to comprehend.

Plumbers and pipe fitters do it.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Not a bit.

But like I said, it's been well established that I'm not a very good pilot.

Ugly and a bad pilot? Next thing you'll tell me is you aren't trying to unite the black vote.

This thread is full of win.

 

[jtrain609]

Ugly and a bad pilot? Next thing you'll tell me is you aren't trying to unite the black vote.

This thread is full of win.

We need another election so I can bring back that signature.

 

[jynxyjoe]

We need another election so I can bring back that signature.

If only they were a regularily timed thing I could forecast for you.

Seriously, can u all stop talking how smooth you are or arent? Im going to start requiring full body shaving to post in this thread about being smooth. Zap, you're up first fuzzy.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If I shave everyone will see how badly out of shape I am.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Plumbers and pipe fitters do it.

They do it with crack showing...

 

[Autothrust Blue]

It's not upsetting, it's demeaning.

Kind of like how you went to the wrong engineering program because you weren't at MIT. You know only MIT grads deserve to be engineers, right?

Brasilia pilots are right out, then!



I fly a regional airliner for a (half decent, even) regional paycheck. But the genie was let out of the bag when the -200 showed up.

If management wants me to fly a frisbee, I'll get a frisbee type rating.