Am I nuts?

[Fixtur]

I work for a small but growing 135 Charter. My initial plan was to fulfill my contract (two summers), put my resumes out, and move on to the airlines.

The boss has just expressed and interest to involve me on the management side (what I used to do before I flew airplanes), along with the attendant pay raise. I'm seriously considering the opportunity.

Pros: I like being home every night. I like the people I work for and with. I like the flying. I like my 15 minute commute to the airport. Scrapping it out with a small growing startup is a lot of work, but can be very rewarding.

Cons: I don't like not having time off in summer. The QOL at the airlines is (eventually) way better, I'm told. The pay at a 135 will never match what an airline job will pay. The pay will never match what an airline will pay. Did I mention that there is no way a 135 can match the pay at an airline?

I used to not give a rip about money after a certain somewhat modest point, but now I've got a family and a house and a retirement to think about. So all of a sudden I'm considering making a yuge decision based on the benjamins, which is something I've literally never done before. Is abandoning core principles in the pursuit of
filthy lucre noble in this case? Will our dynamic duo be able to escape the Riddler's diabolical trap? What is best in life? Am I nuts to even be considering the offer?

Fix

 

[Roger Roger]

135 management sucks

 

[ppragman]

135 management sucks

Truth.

 

[ppragman]

I work for a small but growing 135 Charter. My initial plan was to fulfill my contract (two summers), put my resumes out, and move on to the airlines.

The boss has just expressed and interest to involve me on the management side (what I used to do before I flew airplanes), along with the attendant pay raise. I'm seriously considering the opportunity.

Pros: I like being home every night. I like the people I work for and with. I like the flying. I like my 15 minute commute to the airport. Scrapping it out with a small growing startup is a lot of work, but can be very rewarding.

Cons: I don't like not having time off in summer. The QOL at the airlines is (eventually) way better, I'm told. The pay at a 135 will never match what an airline job will pay. The pay will never match what an airline will pay. Did I mention that there is no way a 135 can match the pay at an airline?

I used to not give a rip about money after a certain somewhat modest point, but now I've got a family and a house and a retirement to think about. So all of a sudden I'm considering making a yuge decision based on the benjamins, which is something I've literally never done before. Is abandoning core principles in the pursuit of
filthy lucre noble in this case? Will our dynamic duo be able to escape the Riddler's diabolical trap? What is best in life? Am I nuts to even be considering the offer?

Fix

I stayed in 135, pretty much my whole career. Did some management, did some otherstuff, was a check airman, etc. The airlines were always “out there“ tempting me with a better schedule and the eventual possibility of QoL far superior to what I was experiencing. I eventually got an amazing corporate gig before I got sick, but yeah, it depends on what you value.

I was on the track to work my way into airline world over 10 years ago, then I got married and decided I needed to be home more, so I stayed 135. I could get hired at a crappy regional but not a Major/National/LCC, so the money just wasn’t really feasible with a wife and kids.

I don’t regret the path I took - in fact quite the opposite, but I would have made a lot more money and probably had a lot more security if I would have gotten on to a company in RJ land in 2008 or so. But then again, I think I would have been miserable.

it’s your life, do what you think will give you the most satisfaction. That may require a stint in the airlines, or it may be medevac in Wichita, or it may be Banner tow, because you just love the lifestyle.

a lot of the time when making decisions we don’t know what we really want out of life, so we look at our peers and make decisions based on what we think they want. Ask yourself what you really value, then try to set yourself on a course that fulfills those values.

 

[Fixtur]

...which is how I've lived my life these last 15 years or so, since quitting a truly miserable job in my late 20's and saying "never again". However, I wasn't ever really considering retirement or supporting a family. It was always "no money? No problem! Tons of time! Let's go hiking!" Things are different now.

Thinking about it - what I value most is not having to think about work when I'm not at work. Flying the line is perfect for that. I'm stimulated all day and working hard, but as soon as the airport gate closes behind me I'm done thinking about it. Management I think would change that.

Good talk. Thanks.

 

[Roger Roger]

what I value most is not having to think about work when I'm not at work. Flying the line is perfect for that. I'm stimulated all day and working hard, but as soon as the airport gate closes behind me I'm done thinking about it. Management I think would change that.

Guarantee 100% it will change that. That was the worst thing about being a 135 DoM. Worse than battling the bosses over every .1 of OT, worse than parts shipping headaches, worse than trying to educate pilots on how not to abuse the aircraft, worse than dealing with grown men acting like children with each other, was ALWAYS having something hanging over your head.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

...which is how I've lived my life these last 15 years or so, since quitting a truly miserable job in my late 20's and saying "never again". However, I wasn't ever really considering retirement or supporting a family. It was always "no money? No problem! Tons of time! Let's go hiking!" Things are different now.

Thinking about it - what I value most is not having to think about work when I'm not at work. Flying the line is perfect for that. I'm stimulated all day and working hard, but as soon as the airport gate closes behind me I'm done thinking about it. Management I think would change that.

Good talk. Thanks.

I have no 135 experience, but 121 takes not giving a crap about work when off to a whole new level. You’re just a cog in a machine that will carry on without you no matter how long you’re missing.

 

[killbilly]

Thinking about it - what I value most is not having to think about work when I'm not at work. Flying the line is perfect for that.

This is precisely why I am interested in flying 121.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

This is precisely why I am interested in flying 121.

It's like tee ball. Other people do the hard work, you just step up to the plate, make sure their placement of the ball on the tee is acceptable, and then swing.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I work for a small but growing 135 Charter. My initial plan was to fulfill my contract (two summers), put my resumes out, and move on to the airlines.

The boss has just expressed and interest to involve me on the management side (what I used to do before I flew airplanes), along with the attendant pay raise. I'm seriously considering the opportunity.

Pros: I like being home every night. I like the people I work for and with. I like the flying. I like my 15 minute commute to the airport. Scrapping it out with a small growing startup is a lot of work, but can be very rewarding.

Cons: I don't like not having time off in summer. The QOL at the airlines is (eventually) way better, I'm told. The pay at a 135 will never match what an airline job will pay. The pay will never match what an airline will pay. Did I mention that there is no way a 135 can match the pay at an airline?

I used to not give a rip about money after a certain somewhat modest point, but now I've got a family and a house and a retirement to think about. So all of a sudden I'm considering making a yuge decision based on the benjamins, which is something I've literally never done before. Is abandoning core principles in the pursuit of
filthy lucre noble in this case? Will our dynamic duo be able to escape the Riddler's diabolical trap? What is best in life? Am I nuts to even be considering the offer?

Fix

What's most likely to be around from present time to your retirement age (65ish)? Your part 135 carrier? Or a legacy 121 airline?

 

[CFI A&P]

Money isn't everything, but it helps alleviate and or allow you to do other things in life. If you have expensive hobbies like boat ownership or operating a warbird, you'll need disposable income and a solid schedule for any recreational activity whether boating, day trading, skiing, etc...

However, if you don't live in base or unwilling to commute, then it'll be hard to justify the time away from home when compared to a 135 job in your backyard.

 

[Crockrocket94]

I think its pretty clear. 135 Management is almost any shape is tough.

The phone rings ALOT. There is always a dumpster fire to extinguish. I guess it depends on your care level and if you think this place is gonna be around in 10 years.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

I was good friends with a CP at a fairly big operation. When he told me that he got a call from a pilot at 0300 to complain about his crew meal, I knew I could never work in management for any outfit with more than a handful of pilots or airplanes.

 

[killbilly]

I was good friends with a CP at a fairly big operation. When he told me that he got a call from a pilot at 0300 to complain about his crew meal, I knew I could never work in management for any outfit with more than a handful of pilots or airplanes.

I 100% guarandamntee you that pilot has never had another non-flying job in his life.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Do you like the thought of what @Screaming_Emu describes of setting the parking brake and being completely disconnected from work for days at a time? Then airline life is for you. If not, if that sounds boring, then you might want to do something else. It took me a long time to realize it wasn’t for me. But everyone is different.

 

[ppragman]

Do you like the thought of what @Screaming_Emu describes of setting the parking brake and being completely disconnected from work for days at a time? Then airline life is for you. If not, if that sounds boring, then you might want to do something else. It took me a long time to realize it wasn’t for me. But everyone is different.

that is both what attracted me to121 flying and also made me say, “thanks but no thanks”

I want my work to have a little bit more intrinsic meaning to me, but OP’s mileage may vary

 

[Fixtur]

There's the rub. If the work isn't that meaningful, but affords me the time and money to do something that is, could I still be happy?

 

[Crockrocket94]

There's the rub. If the work isn't that meaningful, but affords me the time and money to do something that is, could I still be happy?

Most people who are happy don't let their job define them. Lots of ways to skin the cat here.

I made a huge pros and cons list back when I got hired into 121 and its amazing the amount of crap I put up within didn't realize it 100 percent until I did make the move.

Ill tell you this. At a major 121 airline you can be what ever pilot you want to be, and you can change that whenever you want. You want to be a hard worker one month and go for the gold and the cheddar, you can do that. If you want to slack and barely touch a plane or even think about it, you can do that. You cant do that under 135/91 because you're gonna be on someone else's schedule, be it a rotation, or on call, or like I stated before, putting out dumpster fires created by who knows.

You don't feel like playing pilot today? Well maybe you are not fit to fly, pick up the phone call the crew scheduling and use your sick bank. No questions, paid and you can go do whatever it is you do. Noone is calling you asking WHY, or when you will be back. You just do what you need to do. Theres a few thousand other guys out there than can pick it up...

You want to be more involved? Well, there's always Union work, etc. Eventually, make Captain, check airman, Assistant Chief or chief, who knows. Lots of ways to be involved.

Trading trips around? All the time. Maybe you want the end of the month off. trade it around with the company or pilots. I routinely move my stuff around and im not sure if I ever actually flew a bid awarded trip from my original line ...I don't miss what I don't want to miss.

Caveat - im speaking for experience from someone who has been 100 numbers from the bottom of the seniority list for 3 years. It only gets better as more people get hired behind you. Obviously the most junior pilots are not going to have the BEST QOL, but you can make it pretty good if you work it a little.

 

[tcco94]

I have no 135 experience, but 121 takes not giving a crap about work when off to a whole new level. You’re just a cog in a machine that will carry on without you no matter how long you’re missing.

This is like poetry. I love it.

 

[Roger Roger]

There's the rub. If the work isn't that meaningful, but affords me the time and money to do something that is, could I still be happy?

Is managing a 135 REALLY any more meaningful to you on a personal level than the work a 121 pilot does?