Airlines rush to add regional jets; who will fly them?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The ONLY reason a regional pilot is anywhere near mainline pay is because the regionals have contributed to the mainline pilot's 50% pay cut.

I disagree. In order for the regionals to operate those aircraft at XX pay scale, they had to be "allowed" on property via a release of scope.

The mainline pilots did what everyone of us would've probably done in their shoes - to try and save their pensions and pay as much as possible, they used scope as a concessionary tool. They released scope, and in turn didn't have to take as much of a pay cut.

CAL is a good example - their pay / benefits are touted as the worst in majordom but as far as legacies go their scope is really good, nothing over what, 50 seats? By holding onto scope now, they can negotiate better pay and benefits later on without fear of it flying being farmed out.

As shown in this thread, UPS pay was horrible but it was at the expense of other items on the negotiating table. Now the pilots are able to take advantage of their scope and negotiate better pay without fear of their flying getting farmed out.

As I posted earlier in this thread, UAL agreed to the 600% increase in regional feed for a 30% pay raise. That was exactly the opposite of what they should have done IMO.
 
  • Lower pay and worsen work rules at the regional level (another pipe dream I know, but it would force people to not make it a career stop).

Better pay and better work rules at the regional level make the regional carriers less either less appealing to legacies to dump *all* the flying on, or at least puts the costs on equal footing. Bad pay and work rules is the root of the problem. Making it worse will lower the standards as well as make for FEWER larger aircraft jobs. Fewer larger jobs would mean more people don't have a choice on leaving a regional.


If the regional pilots are always an extreme amount cheaper than at majors, they can just keep on farming out flying. If they aren't, then it isn't as attractive... but it also means the majors might keep more mainline routes (and thus more jobs). Otherwise there are fewer jobs and you get to stay at a regional because that's all the mainlines would want.
 
That would explain your post.

The ONLY reason a regional pilot is anywhere near mainline pay is because the regionals have contributed to the mainline pilot's 50% pay cut. So, your friend's pay after going up, up and up are now half of historical mainline pay.

Wow....beat 737 pay for a whole month. That's uhhhhhh, great. I know guys making more flying a Baron than a 3 yr RJ Capt, what's your point?
Face it, it's just lipstick on a pig.

You forgot your :sarcasm: tag. Actually, you probably were serious, and that makes this post even more absurd. It might have something to do with your distain for regional pilots, I don't know.

The regional pilots are the reason for the mainline pilots 50% pay cut? I highly doubt that. The reason major airline pay has been slashed is because of mis-management by the executives, and they used both the Bankrupcy Code and Railway Labor Act in unison to shove concessions down the throats of the employee groups. Those pilots had options: Take concessions, in the hope they could regain their pay and benefits later, or face liquidation. Liquidation was the threat airline management used to win over the unions. The view was, "It is better to have a job for less pay than no job at all." Can't blame them for that thinking, after all, we have families to support.

Let us not forget that Comair and Air Wisconsin took concessions after 9/11. We at ExpressJet voted in a contract extension to 2010 so we did not have to negotiate in the 2008 environment. It is not only the majors that felt the pinch.

Poor management and weak scope clauses are the cause of so much growth at the regionals. Plus, if you don't happen to notice, many regional airlines are scraping the bottom of the barrel to fulfill their pilot staffing requirements. 250/25 at Trans States, or no published minimums at PSA? If that isn't a clear sign that qualified pilots are bypassing the regionals, then I don't know what is. Every regional airlines right now is having difficulty staffing their airplanes. Some airlines more than others.

I get extremely tired of reading these "holier than thou" attitudes that seem to pop up in each thread related to this topic. Have we forgotten where we came from? The regionals are still regionals, but the only reason they have morphed into the animal they are today is because of weak scope and airline management looking to save money. Period. Management is running a business. Do you blame them for monopolizing on a weak clause in a contract? I'm not saying it's right, but management and pilots have very different views of the world.

Instead of helping us bring about change, many of those who have "made it" would rather just look down from their perch and point fingers. "You sellouts! You are flying a jet for peanuts! Stand up for yourselves!" It is easier said than done, and it is even more difficult to affect change when you don't have the support of those above you.

If we are going to really change the regionals in terms of pay and benefits, we first must blur the divisional lines between "major pilot" and "regional pilot." By dividing the two sides, we are immediately putting ourselves at a disadvantage; It is a disadvantage that will make it nearly impossible to affect positive change.
 
I'm sorry if you don't agree with how I see the commuter airline industry. I hope that those of you that want out can get out and for those of you that are staying, I hope you can live on what you have, because odds are you aren't going to get much of an improvement in the future.


I don't anyone had/has an issue with the fact that you don't agree with them on the industry.. It's the manner in which you disagree..
 
Coming from a non-airline pilot (please excuse any ignorance), shouldn't the goal be to get the flying back to the mainline carriers? To get the "regionals" back to flying "regionally". Why make the goal to improve pay and work rules at the regionals instead of working to return to the above regardless of who's fault it is that things are the way they are?
 
Coming from a non-airline pilot (please excuse any ignorance), shouldn't the goal be to get the flying back to the mainline carriers? To get the "regionals" back to flying "regionally". Why make the goal to improve pay and work rules at the regionals instead of working to return to the above regardless of who's fault it is that things are the way they are?
Don't start making sense...that doesn't work around here!!!:D
 
What part do carriers like Allegiant, skybus, and Virgin etc play in all of this? Look at allegiant, you can make about as much as and RJ capt as you can an MD88 capt...So its a serious question.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top