Airlines rush to add regional jets; who will fly them?

[Brand X]

For what it's worth, I will NOT fly the 76 seat airplane for the rates management has tossed on the table. Happy now? I find it asinine that you absolve mainline of all responsibility since they said "Ha. These planes are too small for us." and now they cry b/c THEIR management wants to outsource it. Forgive me if I have little sympathy for them. I can only control so much in this career. Apparently, UPS such as yourself can control more like contract negotiations, who gets what plane, etc.

You said yourself that someone has to play in the minors, now you switch back and say it's not a career destination. Which is it? You can't have both. You also say we have no real negotiating leverage but then spout off b/c we're flying jets for peanuts. Some of us are trying to make a difference, forgive me if we're attempting to get the pay rates for those jets up to where they should be. So far, I haven't seen a valid (or even invalid) response on how YOU would fix the situation.Only griping, complaining and finger pointing. Once again, do you think it would have been better for me to stay a CFI, making less money, no health insurance and away from my family than to take the current job I have now? My family and myself would have to disagree. Sorry if that shatters your worldview.



And, no doubt, you would suggest they quit altogether and start over since they're bringing the industry down by staying at those jobs? Personally, if I were "stuck" at a commuter (I personally don't think I am, I'm fighting to get my time and get out), I'd be doing my best to make it better, not waving a white flag and telling management I give in.

Good for you, but someone else WILL.

It's not a career. Management doesn't want you to make it one. But not all of you are going to make it out of the commuters, so the job there will always suck.

Personally, I could care less if the situation gets fixed. It's not my problem. I just get a kick out of hearing you guys bitch what a crappy job the commuters are knowing full well what you are getting yourselves into. You have to remember that I don't work for an "airline". I hate riding on any airline, mainline or commuter. I'm very thankful that I don't work for an "airline". It's your problem to fix, not mine. Good luck, but I'm not optimistic that you will have any real results.

 

[Brand X]

If you were working your way up today... how would you personally go about getting hired at UPS?

The most sure fired ways today is to be a military transport pilot or work for one of the ACMIs that fly the same type of aircraft that UPS operates.

 

[Baradium]

It's a stepping stone! You talk as if you already work for a major-so worried about QOL. There will be plenty of time for that, when you get some experience, and a career position! I don't understand your mentality or way of thinking. I think this is where the breakdown of communication comes in.

This statement is the root of all the problems with the regional airline industry.

As long as there are people like that the problems will continue. Any increase in size or pay is a "stepping stone." Until they realize they are flying a large airliner for half the money of the rest... and helping to lower the wages. But hey, the heavy time is a "stepping stone" to the big job.


You need to reevaluate your priorities before you find yourself taking a "stepping stone" that runs you afoul of the rest of your brethren and earns you a scarlet letter.

 

[Tram]

You have to remember that I don't work for an "airline".

Nope, you're a high paid trucker in a snazzy brown outfit..

 

[Baradium]

It's your problem to fix, not mine. Good luck, but I'm not optimistic that you will have any real results.

For someone who has so much criticism, you sure aren't much help.


I personally think you enjoy the idea of other people having trouble... that is, if you are even an actual pilot yourself.

 

[stuckingfk]

I think some of the posters here need to realize that this is not the same industry that you went through to get where you are at today.

First, everyone bitches about the paying being substandard. Well that is all relative to some people.

How about these pilots? Should they leave a job where they're making close to $100,000?

• Former military guy with a pension that didn't get on with a major.
• Entrepreneur that wants to keep his/her higher seniority to run a business.
• Parent who enjoys their time off to spend with the kids.

The thing that has changed in today's airline world is that bigger airplanes are being flown at the regional level. With that comes bigger paychecks. So when the Majors are hiring, it doesn't seem to faze the above mentioned pilots. And why should they? They don't want to start at the bottom of the seniority list, have their pay cut by at least half, and go back on reserve.

Back in the day, pilots were flying turbo props with substandard work rules crappy pay. I'm sure most pilots left when the majors came knocking. You know what, I can't blame you.

So what do we do? There are a few things that could be done in my opinion.

• Pay needs to be increased for the first few years at majors. That is your fault boys, not the regional pilot's fault.
• National seniority list (pipe dream I know)
• Lower pay and worsen work rules at the regional level (another pipe dream I know, but it would force people to not make it a career stop).
• ALPA needs to grow a pair and deal with Skybus, Virgin, Go Jet, etc.
• Education of the young ones.

I know some of my points are out in left field, but the airline profession is tanking fast and something needs to be done. We're all in this together and for "Brand X" to say he really doesn't care what goes on below him, that's a problem. He's just making it that much harder for the pilot below him. It's the "I was screwed, so they should be screwed too" mentality that is doing nothing but hurt for everyone.

 

[Nick]

this industry is tanking fast and something needs to be done.

The industry has great growth in its future.

It is the profession that some have concerns with.

We all know what you mean I just don't think the two words are replaceable with each other.

 

[stuckingfk]

The industry has great growth in its future.

It is the profession that some have concerns with.

We all know what you mean I just don't think the two words are replaceable with each other.

Good point, I'll change it.

 

[wheelsup]

The NWA / Compass contract has recently come out and I saw on my company message board one of the things mainline negotiated into their (Compass) contract was a clause stating if mainline gets a raise, so does Compass. (yes I know, that's one sentence, and is confusing, read it a few times if it doesn't make sense )

Ideally, we'd all be under one "contract" with ALPA, or at least all flying under a particular brand would have one contract. All pay rates, work rules, etc. would be spelled out, from the 1900 to the 787. All companies, if they are ALPA, would operate under those pay rates and work rules. That way, when we negotiate to have one contract, the Companies negotiate with ALPA in Washington, not at the local level.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Good for you, but someone else WILL.

It's not a career. Management doesn't want you to make it one. But not all of you are going to make it out of the commuters, so the job there will always suck.

Personally, I could care less if the situation gets fixed. It's not my problem. I just get a kick out of hearing you guys bitch what a crappy job the commuters are knowing full well what you are getting yourselves into. You have to remember that I don't work for an "airline". I hate riding on any airline, mainline or commuter. I'm very thankful that I don't work for an "airline". It's your problem to fix, not mine. Good luck, but I'm not optimistic that you will have any real results.

Actually....you do work for an airline. It's called UPS airlines. However your passengers should you call them that are boxes, and not people.

But UPS is still an airline nontheless.

And yet, another correct. Just like the mainline pilots from days of yore, who thought those RJ's weren't their problem. You saying that pay rates and the current downturn in the industry isn't your concern, and doesn't affect you is rather incredibly naive.

What happens if and when a slowdown happens in the package industry, and management says we need you to take some concessions at industry avaerge.

Bingo, all of a sudden, it's your problem.

You must have a short memory to have forgot that not too long ago UPS & FDX weren't paying what they are now, and didn't have the growth.

In fact they were considered a stepping stone to build turbine experience to get to a "legacy" carrier.

As I shouldn't have to explain to you, someone who claims to be a captain of a widebody jet. But this industry is cyclical.

You may be on top today with your industry leading pay. But just ask United or Delta of today, what happend to their industry leading contracts of yore!

Not your problem...geez!

 

[Minnesota_Flyer]

So what do we do? There are a few things that could be done in my opinion. . . . Lower pay and worsen work rules at the regional level (another pipe dream I know, but it would force people to not make it a career stop).

WHAT?!?! Every pilot at every level of this profession should be paid as much as possible and treated as well as possible (via great work rules). What possible benefit could be gained by hoping that the regionals treat their pilots worse?!?!?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Good for you, but someone else WILL.

It's not a career. Management doesn't want you to make it one. But not all of you are going to make it out of the commuters, so the job there will always suck.

Personally, I could care less if the situation gets fixed. It's not my problem. I just get a kick out of hearing you guys bitch what a crappy job the commuters are knowing full well what you are getting yourselves into. You have to remember that I don't work for an "airline". I hate riding on any airline, mainline or commuter. I'm very thankful that I don't work for an "airline". It's your problem to fix, not mine. Good luck, but I'm not optimistic that you will have any real results.

So, you just post to make people angry?

 

[Cruise]

Cruise, and Tram. . .can we put our prior differences aside considering my observations that each of us, equally . . . have a strong distaste for the troll.

First round is on me, I promise.

You're good in my book....for an outsider! j/k

I actually get to ATL every now and then. I will be certain to look you up next time I'm there!

 

[88MPH]

Brand X <3's hacknow

For cry's sake, where is Amber when you need her?

 

[Cruise]

Good for you, but someone else WILL.

It's not a career. Management doesn't want you to make it one. But not all of you are going to make it out of the commuters, so the job there will always suck.

Personally, I could care less if the situation gets fixed. It's not my problem. I just get a kick out of hearing you guys bitch what a crappy job the commuters are knowing full well what you are getting yourselves into. You have to remember that I don't work for an "airline". I hate riding on any airline, mainline or commuter. I'm very thankful that I don't work for an "airline". It's your problem to fix, not mine. Good luck, but I'm not optimistic that you will have any real results.

[size=+4]I'm calling troll shenanigans![/size]

Your completely ignorant posts are so far over-the-top there is no way you are a professional pilot. And if, by some miraculous chance, you do actually fly commercially.....your attitude truly disgusts me.....and I seriously doubt I'm alone on that one!

Again I say, IT IS YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU, who are bringing the industry down through a lack of solidarity.

 

[Nick]

Good for you, but someone else WILL.

It's not a career. Management doesn't want you to make it one. But not all of you are going to make it out of the commuters, so the job there will always suck.

Personally, I could care less if the situation gets fixed. It's not my problem. I just get a kick out of hearing you guys bitch what a crappy job the commuters are knowing full well what you are getting yourselves into. You have to remember that I don't work for an "airline". I hate riding on any airline, mainline or commuter. I'm very thankful that I don't work for an "airline". It's your problem to fix, not mine. Good luck, but I'm not optimistic that you will have any real results.

I understand you hate what you refer to as commuter airlines. The ones that aren't legacies or flying the size planes that the legacies are. For that matter I guess you hate all airlines.

However -

In the year 2007, the whole saying "if you don't like it, then quit" no longer applies to everything. Aviation is not new and it is here to stay. If the working conditions all around are not good enough, avoiding the whole thing or quitting is not an option. There are job fields that people are qualified to work in and if conditions are not desirable it is not reasonable to simply tell an entire workforce to quit working in the respective industry and move onto something else.

So, they work to improve conditions while they are there. They could strictly adhere to their contract or they could start to create a contract with a new union from scratch like Colgan and SkyWest.

Most regional airline pilots do know what they are getting themselves into when they go for the interview. That does not mean they are not allowed to later bring up the things that need to be improved.

Whatever they bringup seems to be more constructive than those who complain about an entire group of tens of thousands of pilots like they are one person behaving the same. Read the preceding sentence again -- it is descriptive of most of your posts.

 

[scramjet]

Again I say, IT IS YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU, who are bringing the industry down through a lack of solidarity.

:yeahthat:

He does know he is supposedly working for a Part 121 scheduled airline doesn't he? Oh, that's right he doesn't work for an airline...but he does hmmm

 

[surreal1221]

You're good in my book....for an outsider! j/k

I actually get to ATL every now and then. I will be certain to look you up next time I'm there!

Good deal. I'm sure I could gather up the other ATL'iens for an impromptu M&G.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Good deal. I'm sure I could gather up the other ATL'iens for an impromptu M&G.

Two down, one to go!

 

[Tram]

I'm actually heading to FTY in about 2 hours..