Is it worth 25 grand extra?
- Thread starter Mavmb
- Start date
Beware what the little FBO or anywhere else tells you about cost. It doesn't always work out to be that much cheaper. Example:
I live in new york and to rent a 172 or Cherokee costs $100/hour wet with another $45-$50/hour for an instructor. At FSI the cost is $93/hour and $55/hour for an instrucctor. Therefor the FBO produces no savings. Also @ FSI I was able to get my PPL in 41 hours. Syllabus is 35 hours, there were about 2-3 extra hours for weather/atc delays getting back into the airport, and also an extra 2 hour lesson before the checkride which I chose to do to make sure I was really ready. So far I have found FSI's quotes to be very accurate as long as you are prepared and work very hard. The national average for getting your PPL is about 70 hours if done the "normal" (term used very loosely). Therefor the FBO can actually cost you considerably more.
Now if you are able to go the FBO route and fly "full-time" and be completely dedicated and prepared you can cut that time significantly, but we're talking averages here.
There are ways money can be saved though....try and complete a home study course and take you PPL written outside of FSI (call marketing first and make sure they will allow it). This will save you the cost of the ground school.
Also, if time is of the essence, I was able to get my PPL in only a month of flying time. And I took a week off in the middle of that. Part time at an FBO will take considerably longer.
I live in new york and to rent a 172 or Cherokee costs $100/hour wet with another $45-$50/hour for an instructor. At FSI the cost is $93/hour and $55/hour for an instrucctor. Therefor the FBO produces no savings. Also @ FSI I was able to get my PPL in 41 hours. Syllabus is 35 hours, there were about 2-3 extra hours for weather/atc delays getting back into the airport, and also an extra 2 hour lesson before the checkride which I chose to do to make sure I was really ready. So far I have found FSI's quotes to be very accurate as long as you are prepared and work very hard. The national average for getting your PPL is about 70 hours if done the "normal" (term used very loosely). Therefor the FBO can actually cost you considerably more.
Now if you are able to go the FBO route and fly "full-time" and be completely dedicated and prepared you can cut that time significantly, but we're talking averages here.
There are ways money can be saved though....try and complete a home study course and take you PPL written outside of FSI (call marketing first and make sure they will allow it). This will save you the cost of the ground school.
Also, if time is of the essence, I was able to get my PPL in only a month of flying time. And I took a week off in the middle of that. Part time at an FBO will take considerably longer.
flyitup
Well-Known Member
Cime,
I guess a lot of it depends on location. I pay $54/hr for a 172 wet, and my instructor is a free lance at $15/hr. I got my private with 59 hrs, so as you can imagine, with those prices and that time, it really didn’t cost too much.
Like you mentioned though, going the FBO route does take dedication because you’re more or less on your own. I developed my own syllabus to keep organized and get things done in somewhat of a timely manner.
I guess a lot of it depends on location. I pay $54/hr for a 172 wet, and my instructor is a free lance at $15/hr. I got my private with 59 hrs, so as you can imagine, with those prices and that time, it really didn’t cost too much.
Like you mentioned though, going the FBO route does take dedication because you’re more or less on your own. I developed my own syllabus to keep organized and get things done in somewhat of a timely manner.
pscraig
Well-Known Member
That's $69 an hour for dual in a 172! I paid $112 an hour and thought it was average. Like many, it took me nearly 70 hours to get my PPL, and nearly $8K. I am glad I did it before enrolling as it gave me a chance to decide if an aviation career was for me, but it took too long. I also learned to appreciate what FSI offers as far as facilities, maintenance, and weather.
One thing that I am seeking from FSI is the structure of their program. My PPL was much like flyitup, punctuated by a lack of structure and CFIs who don't really have an agenda for todays lesson.
One thing that I am seeking from FSI is the structure of their program. My PPL was much like flyitup, punctuated by a lack of structure and CFIs who don't really have an agenda for todays lesson.
Acadia
Well-Known Member
If you choose well the FBO route can cost about half of what FS does. A case in point is a friend of mine who just got hired by a regional. He did every bit of his flying FBO style and only has about 20K invested. At the same time it took him much longer than it took me to train at FS. He is about 10 years younger than I so he had more time to work with. I loved training at FS (it was perfect for me), but if I was in or just out of college I probably would have gone the FBO route.
As mentioned above: Go read the post on attending the big schools.
As mentioned above: Go read the post on attending the big schools.
flyitup
Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
At the same time it took him much longer than it took me to train at FS. He is about 10 years younger than I so he had more time to work with.
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The age factor was definitely a big player in the decision making process between going to an academy or an FBO. I'm just 20, so right now age is on my side, and when I get this next Sallie Mae loan signed I'll be home free!
At the same time it took him much longer than it took me to train at FS. He is about 10 years younger than I so he had more time to work with.
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The age factor was definitely a big player in the decision making process between going to an academy or an FBO. I'm just 20, so right now age is on my side, and when I get this next Sallie Mae loan signed I'll be home free!
cimepilot
Well-Known Member
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At Flight Safety, it would cost me 50,000 to get all my ratings. At an FBO or smaller schools, it would cost me approximately 25,000 to get all my ratings. So what justifies the extra 25,000 dollars?
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Quality of training. 'Nuff said!
At Flight Safety, it would cost me 50,000 to get all my ratings. At an FBO or smaller schools, it would cost me approximately 25,000 to get all my ratings. So what justifies the extra 25,000 dollars?
[/ QUOTE ]
Quality of training. 'Nuff said!
Correct...it all depends on your location and your own personal situation. Everybody has to figure out what is best for them. For some it is working full-time and going the FBO route part-time. I would have been unable to do that with the nature of my job and the cost of training up here.
Man I wish I could get a 172 for as little as $54!!!! That's ridiculous. Congrats. I would have made the same choice as you in that situation.
Good luck with your training and keep us posted on your progress.
Man I wish I could get a 172 for as little as $54!!!! That's ridiculous. Congrats. I would have made the same choice as you in that situation.
Good luck with your training and keep us posted on your progress.
flyitup
Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Man I wish I could get a 172 for as little as $54!!!! That's ridiculous. Congrats. I would have made the same choice as you in that situation.
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The prices are pretty good when compared with other places throughout the country, and are a good justification to go the FBO route. As far as the quality of training is concerned, it is completely dependant on the instructor and the student. I think to generalize and imply that the quality of training is insufficient at an FBO is a little far fetched.
Man I wish I could get a 172 for as little as $54!!!! That's ridiculous. Congrats. I would have made the same choice as you in that situation.
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The prices are pretty good when compared with other places throughout the country, and are a good justification to go the FBO route. As far as the quality of training is concerned, it is completely dependant on the instructor and the student. I think to generalize and imply that the quality of training is insufficient at an FBO is a little far fetched.
This is a little off the topic but why are there so many FSI guys on this web page. This is in no way a negative! I appreciate all the input. I am just curious? Do you guys talk a lot off line? Why do you make so many posts? I think that it is great but where do you find the time. Also, does anyone know anything about Microsoft's flight sim programs. Are they any good? If starting at o time will they be of any help?
I found this on Plane and Pilot. It has some good info on the FBO vs large academy question.
Prospective pilots faced with the choice of flight training schools have a number of ways to go. At the bottom of the training ladder (in price, if not necessarily in quality) are the Mom and Pop stores. These are usually tiny, local, one instructor-one airplane flight schools, and the tendency too often is to discount such simple operations as worthless.
The tendency is wrong. Don't knock 'em unless you've trained with 'em. What such schools may lack in a formalized training program, modern, state-of-the-art facilities and equipment, they may more than make up for in down-home aeronautical common sense.
At the opposite end of the spectrum are the large, well-organized, well-financed flight schools, often supported by a major airline and often with 30 or more airplanes available, ranging from simple, fixed-gear trainers to complex twins. Again, the naysayers sometimes complain that the larger schools are expensive, impersonal and so entrenched in a rigid curriculum that there's no room for individuality, either among instructors or students. As with the smaller schools, the truth probably lies somewhere between the best and the worst predictions.
One virtually unquestioned reality, however, is that the large, more structured flight schools have a definite advantage in turning out professional pilots in minimum time, if only because they have the equipment and personnel to pursue the goal continuously. No student need remain ground-bound for a lack of available instructors or airplanes when there may be a dozen instructors on staff and two dozen airplanes parked on the ramp.
Flight schools that specialize in airline preparation often offer benefits ranging from truly professional instructors who have seen it all to airline-oriented ground and flight instruction, and there's little question that this can be some of the best aviation training there is.
Prospective pilots faced with the choice of flight training schools have a number of ways to go. At the bottom of the training ladder (in price, if not necessarily in quality) are the Mom and Pop stores. These are usually tiny, local, one instructor-one airplane flight schools, and the tendency too often is to discount such simple operations as worthless.
The tendency is wrong. Don't knock 'em unless you've trained with 'em. What such schools may lack in a formalized training program, modern, state-of-the-art facilities and equipment, they may more than make up for in down-home aeronautical common sense.
At the opposite end of the spectrum are the large, well-organized, well-financed flight schools, often supported by a major airline and often with 30 or more airplanes available, ranging from simple, fixed-gear trainers to complex twins. Again, the naysayers sometimes complain that the larger schools are expensive, impersonal and so entrenched in a rigid curriculum that there's no room for individuality, either among instructors or students. As with the smaller schools, the truth probably lies somewhere between the best and the worst predictions.
One virtually unquestioned reality, however, is that the large, more structured flight schools have a definite advantage in turning out professional pilots in minimum time, if only because they have the equipment and personnel to pursue the goal continuously. No student need remain ground-bound for a lack of available instructors or airplanes when there may be a dozen instructors on staff and two dozen airplanes parked on the ramp.
Flight schools that specialize in airline preparation often offer benefits ranging from truly professional instructors who have seen it all to airline-oriented ground and flight instruction, and there's little question that this can be some of the best aviation training there is.
ScorpionStinger
Well-Known Member
As stated before by Flyitup... it all depends on what FBo you go to.... some are cheap some are expensive...
I was in a Flying club ( Navy flying club) and we had just
1 C-152 it cost $48 solo (wet) $64 dual ( wet)
I got my PPL @ 45 hrs.. everything cost me less than
$ 3,500 ( and not more ) including headset and 3 hrs extra solo flights for the Examination....
it all depends on location....
@ a near by FBO Maine... a C-172 solo was $68 solo and $93 dual...
search for the best deals... even if you have to drive 45+ min to get to that airport.. because in the long run.. you'll be saving mucho denero ..
oh yea.. quality of instruction helps to..
I was in a Flying club ( Navy flying club) and we had just
1 C-152 it cost $48 solo (wet) $64 dual ( wet)
I got my PPL @ 45 hrs.. everything cost me less than
$ 3,500 ( and not more ) including headset and 3 hrs extra solo flights for the Examination....
it all depends on location....
@ a near by FBO Maine... a C-172 solo was $68 solo and $93 dual...
search for the best deals... even if you have to drive 45+ min to get to that airport.. because in the long run.. you'll be saving mucho denero ..
oh yea.. quality of instruction helps to..
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Theres a difference between it being the "same training" and the same certificates/ratings.
flyitup
Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Theres a difference between it being the "same training" and the same certificates/ratings.
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"Everyone" is held to the FAA standards as per the PTS for every checkride regardless of where you trained.
Theres a difference between it being the "same training" and the same certificates/ratings.
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"Everyone" is held to the FAA standards as per the PTS for every checkride regardless of where you trained.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Yup, you're exactly right. So like I said, its not the "same training", its the same certificates/ratings.
flyitup
Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
So like I said, its not the "same training", its the same certificates/ratings.
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That's not exactly 100% true. Like I said earlier, it all depends on the instructor and the student regardless of where you train. The academies can have bad instructors just as easily as an FBO can. It just depends...
So like I said, its not the "same training", its the same certificates/ratings.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not exactly 100% true. Like I said earlier, it all depends on the instructor and the student regardless of where you train. The academies can have bad instructors just as easily as an FBO can. It just depends...
Acadia
Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Quality of training. 'Nuff said!
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I have to disagree. While I found my training at Flight Safety to be great, I don’t think it was superior to some of the FBO's out there. Yeah a number of FBO's are probably are not the best, but many are very good. All you need is a good instructor, good aircraft, and the desire & ability to learn. I am proud of my Flight Safety training, but I don’t think I’m a superior pilot when compared to most of my peers who trained part 61. Now I am instructing at an FBO and I did all of my training through CFI (exept private) at FSI and my students are getting the same quality that new FSI instructor would be giving their students.
P.S. Just like FBO's Flight Safety has some great instructors and some pretty bad ones as well.
Quality of training. 'Nuff said!
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree. While I found my training at Flight Safety to be great, I don’t think it was superior to some of the FBO's out there. Yeah a number of FBO's are probably are not the best, but many are very good. All you need is a good instructor, good aircraft, and the desire & ability to learn. I am proud of my Flight Safety training, but I don’t think I’m a superior pilot when compared to most of my peers who trained part 61. Now I am instructing at an FBO and I did all of my training through CFI (exept private) at FSI and my students are getting the same quality that new FSI instructor would be giving their students.
P.S. Just like FBO's Flight Safety has some great instructors and some pretty bad ones as well.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
That's not exactly 100% true. Like I said earlier, it all depends on the instructor and the student regardless of where you train. The academies can have bad instructors just as easily as an FBO can. It just depends...
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You know, the more I think about it, the more I agree. Yeah, I went through FSI, and yeah, I spent the extra $25k. Do I feel it was worth it? To be honest, I have mixed feelings on that, because in the end, the only difference between me, and someone who did their training with an excellent instructor elsewhere (for $25k less), is that I can stick FSI on my resume. Whether I'm a better pilot/instructor for it or not doesn't have so much to do with the school I chose, but rather what I put into it. That being said, if I had it to do over again, I'd still go FSI. Thats just my thoughts...I'll quit babbling now.
That's not exactly 100% true. Like I said earlier, it all depends on the instructor and the student regardless of where you train. The academies can have bad instructors just as easily as an FBO can. It just depends...
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, the more I think about it, the more I agree. Yeah, I went through FSI, and yeah, I spent the extra $25k. Do I feel it was worth it? To be honest, I have mixed feelings on that, because in the end, the only difference between me, and someone who did their training with an excellent instructor elsewhere (for $25k less), is that I can stick FSI on my resume. Whether I'm a better pilot/instructor for it or not doesn't have so much to do with the school I chose, but rather what I put into it. That being said, if I had it to do over again, I'd still go FSI. Thats just my thoughts...I'll quit babbling now.