Co-Captain forgot medical...BUSTED

[iFLY87]

I need some guidance in a situation I got into today and need some answers by tonight because the FSDO has requested I call tomorrow morning. Ill try to keep it short.

Today I had a short trip in a Jet we manage part 91 to the airport where our local FSDO is located. Right before we departed, my co-captain told me he had a 135 checkride in the bell 206 and was going to do it while we waited. He flew PIC down.
He went to the office for his paper work, oral exam, ect. He didn't come through the FBO to fly all day. I had gotten very curious what was going on. Much later than anticipated he and 3 FAA inspectors came through to inspect the bell. When 2 of the inspectors were coming back through the FBO they approached me and asked who was PIC on the way down. They then explained that he didn't have his medical on him and wasn't legal to fly. They all returned to the FSDO office and I didn't see anyone again until my passenger returned. I called my co-captain and told him he was there and we were ready to go. He had me get the passenger loaded and start an engine. When he finally got to the cockpit I asked if he was good to go that the FAA said he didn't have his medical. He said "yes" he was good to go. I know you can get a temporary medical faxed to you in cases like this, so I didn't question any more.
Once I landed back at home base I had a message on my phone from my boss saying call him when I get a chance. He said one of the FAA inspectors called and wanted me to call them in the morning because I knowingly departed with a FO (required crew member) who didn't have a medical. The inspector said it wasn't going to be documented, but I want to make sure I'm in the clear.

I can't seem to find any reg that states wether I need to verify or not a crew members docs.
I considered filing a NASA report, but don't think it matters since the FAA already has knowledge of the broken reg.
Our company has a current medical on file which would now be a second class medical for the co-captain. This is enough for me to know he does in fact hold a medical.
The guy I was flying with really didn't seem to care about the whole situation and knows he will probably be violated and let go from our current employer, but I don't need this crap and didn't want to be involved.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Itchy]

Well that certainly sucks. Does your company have any procedures for this sort of thing? (Lost Medical?) Many do.

Step 1) Do not use legal or medical advice from a internet forum.
Step 2) Get a real lawyer.

 

[TallFlyer]

I've never had to use it, but APOA Legal is your friend.

 

[z987k]

Don't let that inspector lull you into a false sense of security. EVERYTHING you say to him will be documented/on the record/official no matter what he says about it not being. Treat dealing with FAA inspectors like you just killed someone and the cops are questioning you. He's not your friend and he will most certainly not help you in any way.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Lawyer up. (You are an AOPA Legal Services Plan member, right? If not, too late.)

Shut up.

And you might or might not want to file an ASRS report depending on what your attorney says. But it doesn't sound like an 'inadvertent' violation to me.

 

[SteveCostello]

Man... if there is one thing that I have learned on this forum, if there is ANY interaction between you and the FAA outside of getting a cert or ramp check (and depending on what happens during the RC...), you should shut up and lawyer up. No if, and, or but. Especially if they start poking around and asking pretty much any questions, and even more especially if you are a professional pilot.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I'm a trusting guy by nature, and try to be as courteous and non-confrontational as possible with authority figures like police. Sounds like the FAA is just plain out to get you, though.

Edit: Thanks for the clarification you posted below, @rframe, regarding my last statement above - it's very helpful and paints things in a better light. The More You Know™.

 

[rframe]

Sounds like the FAA is just plain out to get you, though.

I dont think they really are. Several of the FAA guys I've talked to personally have been pretty decent people who love to fly and like pilots. They've told me stories about people they could've violated but didn't because they gave them the benefit of the doubt and felt like the pilot had made some effort to do the right things and was cooperative even if things were a little grey or questionable. I've known some pilots who made some pretty clear mistakes and bent airplanes, and all they got was some discussion and one required some follow up tailwheel training to cover the area in question (ground loop)... pretty reasonable stuff. Also, a lot of them have daily dealings with the carnage, blood, and guts caused by dumb mistakes, dishonest pilots who resent them, and sleezy operators who are trying to skirt rules every which way they can.... in that way, much like a cop who constantly deals with the bottom end of society, their perspective is bound to shift over time and they tend to become pretty intolerant to B.S.

Now, dont get me wrong...I'm not a cheerleader, the FAA as an organization ticks me off regularly and I'd be very cautious anytime an ASI is looking around. I think it's a good example of a Federal association of bureaucrats who've found a good business in making things more complicated and convoluted than they need to be which results in them often being (or at least coming across as) anti-aviation.

But, if you have an incident or something like the OP where people are sniffing around your operation, how do you know if you've got an ASI who's genuinely trying to help and understands little mistakes maybe just need to be talked about and emphasize that the rules are important vs one who's on a power trip and wants to take you for a ride on the administrative action machine? You dont, so be friendly, volunteer nothing, and if questions go beyond routine ramp check stuff...lawyer time, just to help make sure you dont stick your foot in your own mouth if nothing else.

 

[Roger Roger]

I dont think they really are. Several of the FAA guys I've talked to personally have been pretty decent people who love to fly and like pilots. They've told me stories about people they could've violated but didn't because they gave them the benefit of the doubt and felt like the pilot had made some effort to do the right things and was cooperative even if things were a little grey or questionable. I've known some pilots who made some pretty clear mistakes and bent airplanes, and all they got was some discussion and one required some follow up tailwheel training to cover the area in question (ground loop)... pretty reasonable stuff. Also, a lot of them have daily dealings with the carnage, blood, and guts caused by dumb mistakes, dishonest pilots who resent them, and sleezy operators who are trying to skirt rules every which way they can.... in that way, much like a cop who constantly deals with the bottom end of society, their perspective is bound to shift over time and they tend to become pretty intolerant to B.S.

Now, dont get me wrong...I'm not a cheerleader, the FAA as an organization ticks me off regularly and I'd be very cautious anytime an ASI is looking around. I think it's a good example of a Federal association of bureaucrats who've found a good business in making things more complicated and convoluted than they need to be which results in them often being (or at least coming across as) anti-aviation.

But, if you have an incident or something like the OP where people are sniffing around your operation, how do you know if you've got an ASI who's genuinely trying to help and understands little mistakes maybe just need to be talked about and emphasize that the rules are important vs one who's on a power trip and wants to take you for a ride on the administrative action machine? You dont, so be friendly, volunteer nothing, and if questions go beyond routine ramp check stuff...lawyer time, just to help make sure you dont stick your foot in your own mouth if nothing else.

100%.

 

[deadstick]

What are the CVR specs? How long was the flight home? If you asked "good to go?" and he said "yes" you did your part with the known issue. Also, ASRS would still be good because you didn't willingly violate a reg and you filed it in time after discovering the issue.

Get a tape recorder.
Record everything.
AOPA Legal x1000

Good luck.

 

[Old Pete]

I need some guidance in a situation I got into today and need some answers by tonight because the FSDO has requested I call tomorrow morning. Ill try to keep it short.

When 2 of the inspectors were coming back through the FBO they approached me and asked who was PIC on the way down. They then explained that he didn't have his medical on him and wasn't legal to fly.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Wow, you had two ASIs tell you a required crewmember didn't have his medical on him and you chose to depart anyway? I don't think a NASA report will help. You could be in for a world of hurt by intentionally allowing a crewmember to perform his duties without a medical. You've dug yourself a big enough hole, I would let an aviation attorney handle all the contacts with the fsdo from now on.

 

[IslandFlyer]

Wow, you had two ASIs tell you a required crewmember didn't have his medical on him and you chose to depart anyway? I don't think a NASA report will help. You could be in for a world of hurt by intentionally allowing a crewmember to perform his duties without a medical. You've dug yourself a big enough hole, I would let an aviation attorney handle all the contacts with the fsdo from now on.

I don't think he intentionally let him fly without a medical.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Wow, you had two ASIs tell you a required crewmember didn't have his medical on him and you chose to depart anyway? I don't think a NASA report will help. You could be in for a world of hurt by intentionally allowing a crewmember to perform his duties without a medical. You've dug yourself a big enough hole, I would let an aviation attorney handle all the contacts with the fsdo from now on.

He didn't intentionally do anything. On the leg down he wasn't the PIC. on the way back he asked the other pilot and the other pilot chose to lie. He did his due diligence here. IMO a ASRS would apply here. It could save him from having the penalty enforced by the Feds and it only going in the records.

I'd lawyer up ASAP and say nothing further. The comments the Feds have made sounds like they are out for blood.

I've worked for a few places where you had to show your medical to the PIC and or dispatcher when checking in.

 

[Rocketman99]

If I ask fellow pilot if he's good to go and he answers yes how is anything my fault? I'm not required to do a ramp/doc check and I would definitely assume that in the long amount passing time he had somehow gotten a copy of his medical, like from the FAA website or something.

 

[TC_ABM]

Who was legally responsible for the leg in question? That, to me, then lets you begin to choose your own adventure.


Put together on a handheld; that explains the typos and/or incoherent thoughts.

 

[iFLY87]

All is well. No lawyers involved. My DO helped me out and called some people he knows in the FAA and asked their opinions on the issue. They have nothing on me even if I didn't ask, but since I did, I'm fine. Since the ASI wanted me to call, I did. He said its over and that he made an error because he didn't completely explain the issue but he thought the other ASI did and he had a lot on his mind with my Co-captain. The issue is dead! I did file an ASRS, and for those who thought I intentionally departed knowing he didn't have a medical, I was told he didn't have his medical on him, really not a big deal and know you can have a copy faxed fairly easy. I know from teaching and helping students. I didn't think they would let him walk out of there without one. I assure you if I would have thought there was a real issue, I wouldn't have departed. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[deadstick]

Glad to hear it.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Has he been fired yet?

 

[rocketman5150]

It's 2013. You'd think the FAA could get into the 21st century and realize that with all the methods of communication and verification available, maybe it's not really a necessity to actually carry the little piece of paper.

 

[rframe]

It's 2013. You'd think the FAA could get into the 21st century and realize that with all the methods of communication and verification available, maybe it's not really a necessity to actually carry the little piece of paper.

There was a student pilot who flew up to the Valdez STOL competition and forgot his medical. He got ramped. They let someone scan it back home and as long as he had the image on his iPad available to view the FAA said it was cool. Special accommodation but worked out.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

When I flew at island air we had to do a doc check before we moved the aircraft.