Banner tow PFT/PFJ

SIUav8er

SIUav8er

Narcosis
OK, so Im looking for some more work to do in my spare time and it just so happens that the local banner tow company at my local airport is hiring. Went in and met the owner today, everything seemed cool until he tells me about the "training fee". Its $2900! I couldnt believe it.

I didnt turn the job down (yet) although I dont have that kinda money just sitting around so I can learn how to fly a 152 in slow flight:sarcasm:... sure picking up banners is one thing, but is it really worth $2900? Anyone here tow banners? How long did it take you to learn how to do it? I dont know much about banner towing, but it doesnt seem that difficult. I just dont know if I can justify that kind of money for a job that pays $40 an hour on the weekends. What say you guys? Is this normal to charge that kind of money in the banner tow biz?
 
Oh, I get it, ha!

yeah... I doubt Im gonna be draging a rag if its gonna cost me that much money, just wanted to know if this is normal to get charged that much for training.
 
SIU - picking up a banner takes a bit more skill than you might think. For $40/hr that's not a bad gig at all (just bring your Mountain Dew widemouth).

Your training is paid in 72 flight hours. That could be as little as 1 month of weekend work.
 
hey, its too early gimme a break! haha

thanks. but is it "normal" to have to pay for training like that to work for a banner tow company?
 
MikeD said:
Was making a quip about a Pay For Job type operation....normally confined to small regional airlines, but in this case happening to be at a banner tow operation.

My quip = FAIL. :(
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If it makes you feel better, I understood
 
SIUav8er said:
hey, its too early gimme a break! haha

thanks. but is it "normal" to have to pay for training like that to work for a banner tow company?
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I would say that it is not uncommon for someone that has no towing experience to have to pay for the training.

I would raise my eyebrows if I had 1000 hours towing banners and they still wanted to train me
 
SIUav8er said:
hey, its too early gimme a break! haha

thanks. but is it "normal" to have to pay for training like that to work for a banner tow company?
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Oh what a bargain! I was quoted 3500.
Presumably they can assume their new hires to have two left hands, no brain and certain issues with hand eye coordination. Thats why they charge so much. It is normal, but only because they want the worst numbnuts to stay away. I'd never ever pay for this (I'd call it ridicoulous) but the operator has to recoup the money from getting someone ready just in time some silly airline puts a PFJ program up again. Then, suddenly your banner tow fuzzy is gone.

It's funny, by now banner tow companies should be flooded with high quality resumes, but it almost seems they are charging a tiny little bit too much, huh? If an operator has not filled by now, I'd be very cautious!
 
I would never pay for the "training" at a job. It took me about 3 hours with the owner of the company when I started towing banners before I was released to do it on my own, and that was it.

If it was a couple hundred to cover fuel during that time, I would maybe have said take it out of my first paycheck, but I would never give money up front, and sure as hell not an amount like that.

What kind of plane would you be towing with?
 
darrenf said:
I would never pay for the "training" at a job. It took me about 3 hours with the owner of the company when I started towing banners before I was released to do it on my own, and that was it.
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Bingo. It's a job, not college. I didn't have to pay to learn how to operate rides at Disney, cook food at Chili's or push airplanes at SWA. They taught me on their own dime, which is how it should be. I've got no problems with a "training contract" that locks you in for a certain amount of time in order for the company to make the training costs worth while. To me, that's just good business sense. But a "training fee" just seems like a way to make a quick buck. Now, if it was a "We'll train you, but if you quit in 6 months, you'll owe us $3000-4000," that would be a-okay with me.

I was looking into banner towing in Florida back in 2004, but every job I found wanted thousands of dollars up front.
 
I would not pay. I have never had to pay to get a job.

You should get training in banner operations from your company. Once you can demonstrate that you are capable of picking/flying/dropping a banner safely you will be placed on the company's waiver. That is the extent of it. There is no "add-on" or card to carry in your wallet or anything. If you change banner companies then you will have to get put on the new company's waiver to tow for them. This waiver is approved by the FAA and lets your company do special things, like tow banners.

There are basic flight profiles you will learn to both pick up and drop the banner. Once you can fly those profiles (however it is that your banner company chooses to teach them) and are prepared to deal with any of the typical emergencies associated with flying airplanes that are towing banners then you should be set. Not that hard.
 
I personally turned down a banner tow job because he wanted me to pay 1/3 of my summer earnings to training.

The other side of the card, I think almost all banner tow operations are PFT.

I don't have a problem with people that pay for a banner tow job.

$40/hour is great. I was going to be paid 8.00.


EDIT: Besides the money, the C-152 would be a huge turn off for this job. Tail Wheel time would be much more attractive.
 
kellwolf said:
Bingo. It's a job, not college. I didn't have to pay to learn how to operate rides at Disney, cook food at Chili's or push airplanes at SWA. They taught me on their own dime, which is how it should be. I've got no problems with a "training contract" that locks you in for a certain amount of time in order for the company to make the training costs worth while. To me, that's just good business sense. But a "training fee" just seems like a way to make a quick buck. Now, if it was a "We'll train you, but if you quit in 6 months, you'll owe us $3000-4000," that would be a-okay with me.

I was looking into banner towing in Florida back in 2004, but every job I found wanted thousands of dollars up front.
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:yeahthat:

Seems to be one of the few examples to teach all too desperate people that the system of removing all common sense from this profession can in fact backfire. The problem with the training contracts is that operators stand only a 2% chance to recoup the money even if they have you sign a contract. Someone who has to pay that much to get a job is likely broke and very very desperate. I guess the times of 'gentlemens agreements' is coming to an end. The guy I talked to told me to send him a check for $3500, he would then communicate where I would have to be, when, to start my training.

The easiest thing he could do is cash the check and never call back, the second easiest would be to train me during revenue hours (I guess they won't have you pull a white flower on a white background banner) and then send you either out part time (no 700-900 hours) or blame the economy for companies spending less money on their aerials (which will trigger unemployment).
Where I come from we used to call this double dipping. Someone doing it may have a friendly smile - but is still a crook at heart.

Sure, times will change again, I remember times when these same operators could not keep the doors attached to their PA18's because they fell off with all the turnover they had. Today is the time to maintain a list of people or companies you have applied to, and make sure you turn their offers down when the cookie has crumbled. I've done it in non aviation positions (applied, got a rude response and was remembered later) and I would not hesitate to use the words "PAYBACK IS A BUMMER" again. It's cruel and may limit ones opportunities but good things come from integrity and self respect.

I don't care much for the flight time, I get that this way or the other, it's just fun flying and I could see myself do it for a season or two.
 
I dunno - if this opportunity came up and you were deciding between this and putting out the dough to become a CFI, might be cheaper to go this route. Especially if you're someone with no interest in teaching.

*This was not meant to start another "value of becoming a CFI discussion" - I agree, you probably learn more doing that.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I dunno - if this opportunity came up and you were deciding between this and putting out the dough to become a CFI, might be cheaper to go this route. Especially if you're someone with no interest in teaching.

*This was not meant to start another "value of becoming a CFI discussion" - I agree, you probably learn more doing that.
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Since becoming a CFI is my goal, I just added 500 dollars to the budget and am working on that now. I would be glad if banner towing would be able to prevent the worst characters from building their time on a students dime as CFI's. It's cheaper too...
 
Well, if you work really hard in HS you can get college paid for through grants and scholarships. HOWEVER, that is NOT THE SAME as training for a job.


Training should be paid period. Grrr
 
I fueled those guys when I was across the field at RJ. Always looked like fun/serious business coming into pick up the banners or seeing them near hovering over Dogbeach fighting the winds and coastal layer trying to get back in. I'd pay for tailwheel time and the costs to get me up to speed safely but $2900 sounds about three times too much.

Maybe you could help find some business to bring in in exchange for a reduced "training fee."
 
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