Well cr@p ... or, what it's like to bust the IA checkride

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

First, let me say I'm not overly proud of this. But if something in my troubles helps someone else then at least there's some good in it. And hey it just took a little luck out of the one bag and put into the bag marked experience, right?





So I had my IA checkride yesterday and I busted the ILS.

First approach. Nothing failed. Both engines. And I flew right threw the top of the GS. I knew I had done it, I told him I was going to go missed at the OM (the GS intercept) if the GS didn't come alive and when it didn't I went missed. I never busted an altitude, I was on the LOC, I just didn't catch the GS. As we're going missed he said "I'm going to have to disapprove you on that."

Later, he said I went through the GS way out near the first intersection (DRIBB) on the ILS (five some miles from the OM and GS intercept). I, however, for the life of me can not remember ever seeing the GS in the "up" position and come down - doesn't mean it didn't/wasn't there I just don't remember it.

So, as we're going missed he asked me if I wanted to continue and I said sure - 'cause it couldn't get any worse at that point, you can't fail twice - so we wen't around and did the LOC, single engine. It started to get away from me but I salvaged it and he passed me on it. Next up was airwork and as we were passing 7,000 on the way back to OLS (from Ryan) we hit a pretty good bump and ... BAM ... sounded like a gun had gone off and looked over to see the cabin door was open. I looked to the rear of the aircracft and the rear headliner/bulkhead (seperates the pax compartment and the tailcone) had blown out and was hanging down on the seats when the door blew. GREAT! My bad day just got better!

We couldn't get the door closed. It got real noisey and real cold real quick. It's definately a different airplane with that door hanging out in the slipstream but it's still flyable and not much in the way of an emgergency. But, at this point we were halfway between TUS and OLS so we just continued on to OLS and landed. The landing was interesting because the door blocked some of the airflow to the rudder - and we had 08G18 cross winds the switched from the left to the right as we turned final.

The DE was wary of carbon monoxide so he had the unicom operator call the local FD (on the non-emergency number) and had them check out our O2 levels. We were fine. But while we were waiting he said he thought we might have some problems with our marker beacons because the OM was coming on when were were almost literaly on top of the airport (that would explain my GS problem somewhat - but only somewhat as if my scan was up to speed I would have noticed the GS coming in and followed it regardless of my position to the OM).

So I didn't get to do my airwork or the final, partial-pannel VOR approach into OLS. I did pass the oral and the single engine, LOC. So I go back in two weeks to do an ILS (which I have never had problems with - and the sucky thing is I've even flown the Ryan ILS before) and the partial-pannel VOR approach and airwork.

I know I hosed the ILS. But what bugs me is I recognized it, announced it, went missed and handled it safely (I didn't bust any altitudes, I remained in protected airspace, I didn't dive for the false GS, which I got at the OM) and I failed it. If I were out in the clouds and missed the GS I would have done the exact same thing. If I had blown through the bottom of the GS, or busted an altitude I'd feel a little "better" about failing it because those would have been mistakes that could have had serious ramifications.

Oh well, it's not the end of the world. The re-test will be a much more relaxed (as relaxed as a checkride can be that is) atmosphere and I'm confident I'll do better.

The DE was super nice and "supportive" about the ILS thing as well as the door situation. Of course he had to hold it shut the 20 miles or so back to OLS but he was very professional about everything.

But the IA gods were still not happy with my level of humiliation so on the ride home the airmet that was forecast for the Colorado River area must have worked its way east 'cause I was getting tossed around pretty good. Not to mention I had to fly home with the gear down (1.5hr flight no less under 150mph) as I didn't get my gear up light climbing off of OLS (that's getting checked today) so I just put them back down and got three green. And then, just to top it off, on the drive home I notice my gas was pretty low (in the car) so I get off on Via De Ventura and it has to be the only street in the entire PHX metro area that doesn't have a single, friggin' gas station on it.

Cinco de Mayo?

Cinco de Sucko was more like it!


Moral of the story:

Don't hose your ILS!

Don't freak out if a door pops open on you (it'll scare you but the airplane will keep flying).

If you do bust something on a chekride you may as well continue 'cause you can't fail the same ride more than once (same ride as in the actual pyshical ride you're doing when/if you bust something).

Don't freak out over the oral.

If you suspect a problem with the gear dump 'em and fly with 'em out (lessoned learned on this one).

Don't try to get gas on Via De Ventura!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Two things:

1. Sorry dude! I know you were ready!! You'll gitter done next time!!

2. This scares the SH*T out of me with my ride coming up!! THANKS!!


Seriously, sorry to hear about your bad day. BUT, you did keep your sh*t together. I don't know if I could have.

Good luck in two weeks, buddy!!

R2F
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
2. This scares the SH*T out of me with my ride coming up!! THANKS!!

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem! That'll be $2.00 please!




I want my TWO DOLLARS!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
I want my TWO DOLLARS!

[/ QUOTE ]
Too funny. That was my signature line here when I first found this site.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Couple of items:

If I were the IP, I would've been a little more big picture. If you hose the ILS, yet have the SA to execute missed when things aren't looking good and follow the procedures, I'd (like I always PREACH) "keep it real". I would've just asked you "OK so you went missed, the WX still stands as it was for the first approach, what is your plan now?" I would hope you'd get the picture and query ATC for vectors for another ILS and do it again. This time, settle down and make it happen. THAT'S real world. Do it again right, and no harm, no foul.

Door opening in generally NOT an emergency, just an annoyance. Don't waste your time trying to close the door or hold it closed, fly the plane.

You mentioned GS indications at OLS. What approach were you flying there? Or did I read your post incorrectly?

And who was the DE? If he was from OLS, was it Larry somebody or another?

MD
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Why would the DE be afraid of CO poisoning? Yes, the exhaust dumps into the airflow, but with 130+knots (I'm assuming) I don't think it's going to get from under the wing and into the cabin, considering where the stacks are.

As far as the ride goes, don't sweat it. Crap happens. The important thing is that you shake it off...don't let it bug you on the next one.

Chunk
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

I gotta agree with MikeD on that one.

ILS's, LOC's and VOR's are all fairly straight-forward approaches to execute, but the absolute most challenging parts of IFR flight is "situational awareness" and determining when and how to go missed approach.

Yeah, don't worry about the door, just fly the airplane. I think almost everyone that dies when a door pops open is the guy who stops flying the airplane.

I lost some friends after college from a door ajar indicent in an Apache. Hey MikeD, do you remember Stephan Meister and Cynthia Kariolich? It was them.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
I would hope you'd get the picture and query ATC for vectors for another ILS and do it again. This time, settle down and make it happen. THAT'S real world. Do it again right, and no harm, no foul.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I identified the siuation and told him if at NIKE the GS doesn't come in I'm going missed (I suspected I had blown through it but I wast 4,300 and not yet to NIKE - the GS intercept - so I was waiting till then to make my final decision) and I would have asked for vectors back to another ILS but I got the "you're ..."

[ QUOTE ]
Door opening in generally NOT an emergency, just an annoyance. Don't waste your time trying to close the door or hold it closed, fly the plane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah we slowed it down one time to try and close it but it just wouldn't cooperate so we just found an airspeed at which he could keep it generally close to closed and hobbled on back to OLS.

[ QUOTE ]
You mentioned GS indications at OLS. What approach were you flying there? Or did I read your post incorrectly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, I was doing the ILS at Ryan.

Oh Mike, any ideas or do you know why/what happened to the ILS at Ft. Hauchuca? The ILS, the TACAN, the arresting cables and something else I believe were out yesterday around 9a.m. which is why we went north to Ryan.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Ahhh man that's too bad; I really don't think you should have been failed on that due to the way you handled it.... In addition, shouldn't he have failed you the instant you went through it (as opposed to waiting until the miss)? I mean what was he waiting for if he knew you'd busted (unless maybe he wanted to see a huge descent down to the loc mins; recapture the ils and fly it down... but that'd be kinda scary to say the least).

Well I don't mean encourage resentment so I'll just say that what happened happened; it's behind you and you'll do outstanding on the next one.

Also not to sound like a complete moron (too late!) but IA = instrument airplane??
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta agree with MikeD on that one.

ILS's, LOC's and VOR's are all fairly straight-forward approaches to execute, but the absolute most challenging parts of IFR flight is "situational awareness" and determining when and how to go missed approach.

Yeah, don't worry about the door, just fly the airplane. I think almost everyone that dies when a door pops open is the guy who stops flying the airplane.

I lost some friends after college from a door ajar indicent in an Apache. Hey MikeD, do you remember Stephan Meister and Cynthia Kariolich? It was them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug: Yeah, I remember them. Was that incident in California just a couple years after we left ERAU? What were the accident details?

602: Worried about CO poisoning. That's somewhat laughable, actually. And to have the FD come out. As a firefighter myself, I gotta say that's a little over-paranoid.

Regards the ride, I'm far more big picture than most DEs/IPs that I've seen. I want to see basic SA in the plane. If a guy screws up an approach, that's real world, that CAN and DOES happen. Recognizing it is good SA, doing the correct thing about it is better SA, and saying "I'm going to check my fuel, see what I've got in comparison to the alternate so I know if I can shoot another approach, I know the WX hasn't changed, so I'm going to TELL ATC what my intentions are, and that is to fly another approach, and land this time", is superior SA.

MD
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

I busted my initial instrument ride as well. Partial panel VOR approach - concentrating too much on holding the course using only the compass - forgot the stepdown descent and ended up at the MAP 150 feet high. It hasn't hurt my career one iota - chalk it up to experience and move on!! It's no biggie in the grand scheme of things!

Jason
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Mike, any ideas or do you know why/what happened to the ILS at Ft. Hauchuca? The ILS, the TACAN, the arresting cables and something else I believe were out yesterday around 9a.m. which is why we went north to Ryan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was duty officer at my squadron yesterday, and we had one of our A-10 divert into FHU with zero left hydraulics. Was stuck on the runway until the gear could get pinned safe and a tug could tow it off.

My other bitch is many DEs I see shouldn't be DEs. They've got little real world knowlege and aren't "big picture" in any way; all they know is the PTS standards and that's it. I have little respect for the way these people are.


MD
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Yup, that was right after college.

Here's the NTSB report
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Thanks all,

It sucked that I hosed something I've literally, never had trouble with - I've had plenty of trouble with other things but the ILS has always been my strong point - especially with nothing failed!


But, I'm not going to let it get me down. I passed the oral (which for some reason I had built up an irrational worryance over) and the single engine LOC. All I gotta do now is go back nail the ILS, the partial pannel VOR and do a couple of manuvers.

It sucked but it's not the end of the world. The bright side is it makes for a decent story!
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I was duty officer at my squadron yesterday, and we had one of our A-10 divert into FHU with zero left hydraulics. Was stuck on the runway until the gear could get pinned safe and a tug could tow it off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I was just curious. Sounds like yesterday was not a great day all the way around.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]

My other bitch is many DEs I see shouldn't be DEs. They've got little real world knowlege and aren't "big picture" in any way; all they know is the PTS standards and that's it. I have little respect for the way these people are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh preach on brother!

Were you around that summer when I took my IFR-ME and that bonehead across the field failed me and then spent 30 minutes lecturing me about how all of us "riddle pukes" thought we were hot sh*t, etc?

Turns out that when we got our self-examining authority, he lost mega business because we did checkrides "in house".
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

My other bitch is many DEs I see shouldn't be DEs. They've got little real world knowlege and aren't "big picture" in any way; all they know is the PTS standards and that's it. I have little respect for the way these people are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh preach on brother!

Were you around that summer when I took my IFR-ME and that bonehead across the field failed me and then spent 30 minutes lecturing me about how all of us "riddle pukes" thought we were hot sh*t, etc?

Turns out that when we got our self-examining authority, he lost mega business because we did checkrides "in house".



[/ QUOTE ]

Was that the old guy that busted me on my initial CFI too? I forget his name.

Piggy-backing to what you're saying, I often wonder if some DEs just give an occasional pink slip in order to get an extra $200 (or whatever the fee is now).

But my initial bitch stands. Many of these guys, like many CFIs, have no real world experience, so they're not really teaching good stuff to their students. The DEs that don't have any experience, therefore, can't see past the PTS words; and I BET A APYCHECK, that if it was THEM taking the checkride, I could EASILY find something to bust their dumb asses on. THAT'S WHY being big-picture is so important. A good IP/DE makes the ride something to learn from, something for the student to take away and file into his "bag of tricks" for future reference. NOT just a pass/ fail, and there you go.

MD
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
Many of these guys, like many CFIs, have no real world experience..

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where I'm going to be fortunate in a couple of weeks when I take my ride. The DE I'm going up with flies corporate and has for YEARS. According to my instructor, he's very laid back and wants to see the aforementioned SA moreso than "perfect approaches".

I'll let you guys know in a couple of weeks whether or not that's true.
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

[ QUOTE ]
It sucked that I hosed something I've literally, never had trouble with -

[/ QUOTE ]

My first try on the IR sucked ass. I got so frustrated in the oral that I should have just called it there. But no. I could do it. Does it really matter if you know the difference between an A01 and A02 reporting station?

Single engine ILS - freaked out and tried to get everything done too fast. mixturespropsthrottleflapsupgearupidentifyverify! Mistake #1. Came down the glideslope w/ too much speed, floated to the middle of the runway. Mistake #2.

At that point, I thought, "well, that kinda sucked, but hey, we landed..." Continue on.

GPS approach. This approach wasn't one of those easy GPS T shaped ones, it was a NDB overlay. Still, GPS approaches are easy, no problem. Ha! No problem if you program the GPS right! Mistake #3 I put the VOR approach into the GPS unit. Wooops. Discontinue approach.

Good news though was that my hold was excellent (if I do say so myself) and my steep turns and unusual attitudes were acceptable. At this point, I knew that I would be repeating something, but I'd go ahead and finish with the mother of all approaches.

Partial Panel VOR. Ugh. Not a big fan. Anyway, after getting vectored around for a while (which is always fun P.P.), I got on to the approach. Things were going pretty well. I reached the VOR (it's about 4.5 miles from the airport), started my timer, dropped the gear, began my descent, turned to the new heading (5° from the original heading to the VOR) and called the tower. Cleared to land, good enough. Took me a little while to re-intercept the new radial, but I finally did. Then the DE said to look up. That was puzzling to me because I hadn't reached the MAP yet which is what he wanted me to do. Unfortunately, I twisted the OBS to 125° instead of 115° which definately didn't put me in a position to land (91.175 for you IR geeks). FAIL.

Never had I made so many mistakes. In fact, it totally ruined my confidence in myself and I had to spend about 8 hours in the plane to get it back. Total test-itis. Anyway, when I went back for the 2nd try, things went great. Go figure.

Good luck on the next try!
Dave
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Re: Well cr@p ... or, what it\'s like to bust the IA checkride

Hey, at least you didn't have to arc PP! That's the upside! The winds were out of the west on my checkride, so I did the 29L PP. A lot easier! AO1 vs. AO2...hmmm...trying to guess your check airman...I'd say JB but she's gone...SJ?
 
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