SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Acrofox said:
Oh yeah.
The jump seat battle with the uneducated.
- Thread starter mshunter
- Start date
Oh yeah.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Yes, definitely.
What's funny about it is, I first heard it in the late 90s when I was going through USAF pilot training, and it was the Reagan-era and Desert Storm combat veteran old-heads/gray-beards using it to decry the weaknesses of the pilots of my generation (I'm a 40-ish Gen X'er now, but I was in my 20s and new to the Air Force at the time).
So, I don't know how long the term has been around -- the term "new-age" is a late 70s/80s origin, and the era of the sensitive male is a post-counterculture concept -- but it certainly has been applied to several generations of pilots in the time that I've been aware of it.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go around admitting that.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
Maybe it was just a little fur allergy or a hairball issue. I wouldn't worry about it. sorry, I couldn't resist.lol
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BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
As the guys said, it is kind of negative. However, I (often) find that the people throwing it around are the old timers who haven't adapted well to the concepts of CRM and what not and probably did their first checkout flying a pterodactyl.
Some animals are allergic to Fox dander. You must stay patient, Sasya.
"Back at (defunct/pre-merger/bankrupt/non-existent carrier) we were MEN! Blah blah blah blah… And things were awesome!"
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I resent the Reagan-era gray beard characterization. Ok, so my flight class was larger than the number of flight students in your entire year group, and I had to breath on a mirror to prove my qualifications to be a pilot. I somehow lived through an era when there were more rules than WWII yet we had little adult supervision. But those are not gray hairs they are... Wait... What were we talking about? Gray hairs? Jump seat? Crap. Can't remember. What was my point? Someone throw me a bone.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
As long as we're swapping stories....
Back in the day at Henson...(nee Piedmont): Generally, the Florida airplanes/crews stayied in Florida while the rest of the airline went about it's business. On an odd ball holiday trip, the crew was doing a double deadhead from EWN-CLT-MIA, where they would overnight, and pick up an airplane in MIA, then do MIA-TLH-CLT or some such.
Anyway, crew arrives from their DH into CLT and saunters over to the MIA flight an hour before, DH tickets in hand (back when there were actual tickets). Naturally, the flight is full, it being a holiday.
They dutifully check in with the agent, who, upon finding them listed, loudly proclaims "EXPRESS DOESN"T HAVE MUST RIDE! YOU DON'T HAVE SEATS!". The exact verbiage is remembered, as it was repeated, well, repeatedly. Knowing this was comically inaccurate, a certain grumpy dude did some mental CRM foreplay and thought "dude, let it go! They'll leave us here, we'll get to go home, and it will be all their fault!".
While this mental mast, er, um, process was going on, the Captain proceeds to engage the agent. Hilarious impasse ensues. Captain calls Crew Scheduling, and hands phone to agent, where another hilarious impasse ensues, and results in the agent hanging up on crew scheduling (something I always wanted to do, but watching it being done by proxy was an acceptable substitute).
So, we chill out, plane fills up, and just when it looks like a holiday miracle was about to occur, a dude in a suit comes to the gate, has a brief discussion with the agent, and hands our intrepid crew their boarding passes to MIA (bulkhead, middle seat, thank you).
Dude in suit has a "we are going to have a very serious chat after this plane leaves" look about him.
Seeing as the crew was actually delivered to the designated airport at the time promised, there wasn't anything really to write up. But what I did learn is that sometimes things need to take their own course that may, or may not, require your intervention.
Richman
Back in the day at Henson...(nee Piedmont): Generally, the Florida airplanes/crews stayied in Florida while the rest of the airline went about it's business. On an odd ball holiday trip, the crew was doing a double deadhead from EWN-CLT-MIA, where they would overnight, and pick up an airplane in MIA, then do MIA-TLH-CLT or some such.
Anyway, crew arrives from their DH into CLT and saunters over to the MIA flight an hour before, DH tickets in hand (back when there were actual tickets). Naturally, the flight is full, it being a holiday.
They dutifully check in with the agent, who, upon finding them listed, loudly proclaims "EXPRESS DOESN"T HAVE MUST RIDE! YOU DON'T HAVE SEATS!". The exact verbiage is remembered, as it was repeated, well, repeatedly. Knowing this was comically inaccurate, a certain grumpy dude did some mental CRM foreplay and thought "dude, let it go! They'll leave us here, we'll get to go home, and it will be all their fault!".
While this mental mast, er, um, process was going on, the Captain proceeds to engage the agent. Hilarious impasse ensues. Captain calls Crew Scheduling, and hands phone to agent, where another hilarious impasse ensues, and results in the agent hanging up on crew scheduling (something I always wanted to do, but watching it being done by proxy was an acceptable substitute).
So, we chill out, plane fills up, and just when it looks like a holiday miracle was about to occur, a dude in a suit comes to the gate, has a brief discussion with the agent, and hands our intrepid crew their boarding passes to MIA (bulkhead, middle seat, thank you).
Dude in suit has a "we are going to have a very serious chat after this plane leaves" look about him.
Seeing as the crew was actually delivered to the designated airport at the time promised, there wasn't anything really to write up. But what I did learn is that sometimes things need to take their own course that may, or may not, require your intervention.
Richman
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
@Richman I had a similar incident many many years ago and it was just as bad. We pulled into the outstation and our FA gets off to get her must ride ticket to go back to the base and we get a new FA for the return leg. The new FA comes down and said the other FA is being denied since the flight is full and they will not bump a paying passenger period. The Captain goes up and doesn't win the argument and comes back and notifies the company and crew sked doesn't know what to do. We board and push without the FA. A few minutes later we are #1 for Takeoff and get call from the tower that the company called and they want us to go back to the gate and not depart until you have the must ride FA onboard. We go back and the agent boards the plane, pulls a pax off and puts the FA. The last I heard the agent received disciplinary action.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Can those of you experienced in 121 ops outline the actual area of responsibility that the gate agent has?
I understand that in terms of planning and operating the flight, that it is a shared (joint?) responsibility between the Captain and the Dispatcher. Where does the gate agent's responsibility for the airplane and the flight end doctrinally? Is their ability to control access to the aircraft while it is at the gate where they derive this authority displayed in these stories from?
I understand that in terms of planning and operating the flight, that it is a shared (joint?) responsibility between the Captain and the Dispatcher. Where does the gate agent's responsibility for the airplane and the flight end doctrinally? Is their ability to control access to the aircraft while it is at the gate where they derive this authority displayed in these stories from?
n156499000
I-am-a-pirate. I do not need credentials!
Let me see if I can answer this without rambling on too much.
The gate agent's responsibility is, in its most basic form, to make sure that the aircraft door is closed before departure time. Somewhere along the way they have to also make sure that the plane is filled with the right crew, passengers wanting to go where the plane is going, ensure that bags that don't fit get checked and given to the ramp, send passenger numbers to load control/dispatch, print out about three trees worth of paperwork, and a few other things that time and copious quantities of alcohol have helped me to forget.
Ego, control trips, laziness, and a desire to get the flight closed out and departed as fast as possible to avoid a delay and getting called down to their supervisor's office where even the excuse of "but the captain got off the plane and refused to leave" can't prevent the agent from getting a few new scars. (Sadly I had a few supervisors/managers like this during my time as a CSA.)
Plus, when it comes to comes to regional partners, often times it is simply a matter of the agent not knowing (or caring) about the differences from mainline. At one point I remember having to keep track of different rules, policies, and procedures for Delta (which hadn't finished the merger with Northwest yet so that meant two different sets for DL/NW pilots and FAs), Mesaba, Compass, SkyWest, ASA, and Sun Country. I got real good at using the search tool for our online manuals.
The gate agent's responsibility is, in its most basic form, to make sure that the aircraft door is closed before departure time. Somewhere along the way they have to also make sure that the plane is filled with the right crew, passengers wanting to go where the plane is going, ensure that bags that don't fit get checked and given to the ramp, send passenger numbers to load control/dispatch, print out about three trees worth of paperwork, and a few other things that time and copious quantities of alcohol have helped me to forget.
Ego, control trips, laziness, and a desire to get the flight closed out and departed as fast as possible to avoid a delay and getting called down to their supervisor's office where even the excuse of "but the captain got off the plane and refused to leave" can't prevent the agent from getting a few new scars. (Sadly I had a few supervisors/managers like this during my time as a CSA.)
Plus, when it comes to comes to regional partners, often times it is simply a matter of the agent not knowing (or caring) about the differences from mainline. At one point I remember having to keep track of different rules, policies, and procedures for Delta (which hadn't finished the merger with Northwest yet so that meant two different sets for DL/NW pilots and FAs), Mesaba, Compass, SkyWest, ASA, and Sun Country. I got real good at using the search tool for our online manuals.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
One time at a UAL gate at ORD going to SFO I was denied by an agent and he said I needed a ZED ticket. I asked if he was sure, and he said yes. I walked away and got in the second line to see the other gate agent (for the same flight, it was a 767). When I got to this agent and asked to jumpseat he said his previous colleague informed him that I was Virgin Atlantic and can't do a flight deck jumpseat and need a ZED ticket. I had clearly told him I was virgin America, but whatever, I wasn't going to argue. I just politely explained we were Virgin America, VX, and CASS approved. So I got on the flight deck jumpseat. The other was already taken by a UAL guy. Turns out it was a 767-200 (United/Cotinental doesn't have anymore I hear) so I feel like I got to experience some part of history riding that one.
Autothrust Blue
Speed Bugs, Surf, Sunshine
I mean, except for the accident record."Back at (defunct/pre-merger/bankrupt/non-existent carrier) we were MEN! Blah blah blah blah… And things were awesome!"
saxman
Well-Known Member
Apparently, my airline has been having trouble getting ballast loaded for a certain mainline partner in LAX. A few captains have requested ballast, but the station ground agents are saying it's against their rules. They are kicking off paying passengers, non-revs., jumpseaters just to not have to put ballast on the aircraft. This is even though ballast is available. Can't wait to deal with this stuff when I'm the PIC. I'd like to think I'd flex my muscles with this sort of thing, but when you have ramp sups. and agents sticking to their guns, how long can you really delay the flight?
Odd. If said carrier flies MD-88's and -90's into that station, there's plenty of balllast.
Luigi
Well-Known Member
Haha ran into that the other day...I kept saying it was literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard...needed 300 lbs of ballast and the station had 400 but said it would leave them with less than the required amount...so freaking stupid.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
I didn't know you were a doctor. Why were your patients too tight? Were they mental patients who had to be strapped down? What does this have to do with a jumpseat? I'm really confused.
Like a bad abmalampse driver.
