Sick Time

[DE727UPS]

"As many times as you're sick. Don't let these scumbags intimidate you"

We don't know where the OP works. We don't know if he's got a contract. It sounds like he can be asked for a docs note. I'd say he could be fired if he violates whatever policy this airline has. You can jump up and down all day long and say how illegal it is, but how is that gonna help the guy if he gets fired. You gonna pay his legal expenses? This is a crazy wacked out business, and I'm sure people have been fired for sick leave abuse is the past. If there was ever a good reason for a union and a contract, this is it.

To the OP. You need to find out exactly what the policy is. Five times a year sounds about average and if they are giving people crap for going over that, I guess it's their business. If you work for a company with no union, I guess there isn't much you can do about it than to understand company policy to a T. If PCL is willing to pay your legal bills, then maybe you got a shot at taking them to court over it. You could talk to your POI at the FAA, but I doubt it would really do any good.

 

[Yank&BankmyRJ145]

Inquiring minds want to know

I was taking over a plane, after an IOE training pilot. He made a couple of people sick in the back. I stayed on the plane while they cleaned everything up, not thinking that the chemicals were harmful they were using. Well after an out and back, with a lot of passengers complaining, I was not feeling well also myself in the middle of a 4 day trip. I called in, told them what happened and they said thats what your sick is for.
As of today, the weird thing is I still have 4 full days of sick time available to use.

And yes I do have a Union, but not fully until he signed that paperwork that day.

And if it makes a difference the captain I was flying with all week said he has never gone by to clear a sick in 18 years. He did not know he had to unless he went to a doctor or the hospital.

 

[minitour]

I don't have a problem getting a note from the doctor, but I do have a problem with a company person asking "why" you're calling off sick.

That's between you, your family and your doctor.

-mini

 

[skydog]

It would seem that you answered your own question. You've called in sick 5 times (as a new hire, it sounds like), and now your employer is questioning you about it. I would imagine that any other employee that demonstrates attendance reliability similar to yours would also face similar questions.

Put yourself in your employer's position. Five times you have called in sick; five times they have had to cover your flying. That's five times that someone else has been extended, re-assigned, junior-manned, etc. Or worse, that's five times that a flight (or flights) have been cancelled because of your sick calls.

Employers expect that employees will get sick once in a while; it's why they provide sick time. But they don't expect the average employee to call in sick as often as you have. The reasons don't matter. Whether you're not taking care of yourself, abusing sick time, or just not a healthy person, you have proven yourself to be an unreliable employee, hence the problems at work. Employers need to know that their employees are going to show up for work. If employees aren't reliable, then (in my opinion anyway) the employer is justified in asking questions.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Thank you for demonstrating why we have unions: to protect us from people like you.

 

[Old Pete]

While I don't Know what is "acceptable" for an airline employee, calling in sick 5 or more times a year would make me wonder whether someone was abusing his sick time benefits or is one sickly individual.

 

[LR-Driver]

I may not see this the same way as most of you. Call in only when you are too sick to fly and you should not exceed the sick days given to you, nor should your company question you. The amount of sick days provided is not a goal for the year, they are there to be used when you are sick.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Call in only when you are too sick to fly and you should not exceed the sick days given to you

So what do you do if you are sick more times than you have days available? Sick time is just a pay issue. Actually being sick is a safety issue. No one should ever feel pressures to fly when they are sick simply because they ran out of an arbitrary number of sick days.

 

[LR-Driver]

I agree that you should not be pressured to fly if you are sick. You only quoted the first part of that sentence. The rest of the sentence said that your company should not question you when you do call in.

My point is that sick days are not vacation days. Nobody likes covering for someone who conveniently gets sick just to get out of a trip that they dont want to do.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

While I don't Know what is "acceptable" for an airline employee, calling in sick 5 or more times a year would make me wonder whether someone was abusing his sick time benefits or is one sickly individual.

Most people don't work in a tin can that recirculates all the airborne viruses anyone may have 8 hours a day either.

Also, many people go to work slightly sick and this is in the culture of corporations -- I don't think pilots or flight attendants should go to work when they're sick at all.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I have called in sick about 2-3x in the last two years of flying full time. 5 times in less than a year is a good amount.

With that said, you are the only one who determines if you are fit to fly. Like others have said, check your company manual and call your union rep if you think they are out of line.

 

[skydog]

I didn't see anything in the original post that suggested that he was pressured to fly, merely that the company was requiring a doctor's notifcation. I think 5 sick calls in a year is a lot, especially when you consider that one sick call probably means missing 3 or 4 days of work. When someone calls in sick as often as the OP has, I think it is legitimate to look into the matter, especially considering that the company is paying sick time, and potentially losing thousands of dollars of revenue (if a flight is cancelled due to a sick crewmember).

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I didn't see anything in the original post that suggested that he was pressured to fly, merely that the company was requiring a doctor's notifcation.

Anytime they require a meeting with the pilot is an attempt at intimidation. They're trying to scare people by telling them they have to "clear" their sick calls or face discipline, whatever the hell that means. Requiring a doctor's note is also unacceptable. The FARs are quite clear that a pilot is to self-certify his fitness to fly. Remember IM SAFE? All of these things are attempts at pilot-pushing.

I think 5 sick calls in a year is a lot

I usually call in sick more times than that, and I never call in sick unless I'm really sick. I'm out sick right now, in fact, and this is probably my 5th sick call this year.

When someone calls in sick as often as the OP has, I think it is legitimate to look into the matter, especially considering that the company is paying sick time, and potentially losing thousands of dollars of revenue (if a flight is cancelled due to a sick crewmember).

Pilots calling in sick is just a cost of doing business. If a company is responsible and staffs the airline appropriately, then no revenue should be lost.

 

[Alchemy]

This profession can be tough on your immune system, and I think it really does affect some people more than others. I've called in sick once in 4 years (stomach virus), but I think I just have a pretty good immune system or have gotten lucky on what I've been exposed to. Most people probably take two or three trips a year off for sick leave, and my company doesn't start to ask for doctor's note until the fourth or fifth occurence in a year, I think.

If the OP works where I think he does (an alpa regional), they should have a similair policy. I know over here they can't fire you for sick calls.....we had guys calling in for 7+ trips a year and they couldn't be fired for it, just given "letters of warning". Sure, if you go and do somehing else wrong, you've probably used up all your strikes by using so much sick time, but I doubt they will try and fire you over it, especially if you can provide dotor's notes.

 

[minitour]

That would be nice not to be able to be fired for calling sick.

-mini

 

[skydog]

Anytime they require a meeting with the pilot is an attempt at intimidation. They're trying to scare people by telling them they have to "clear" their sick calls or face discipline, whatever the hell that means. Requiring a doctor's note is also unacceptable. The FARs are quite clear that a pilot is to self-certify his fitness to fly. Remember IM SAFE? All of these things are attempts at pilot-pushing.



I usually call in sick more times than that, and I never call in sick unless I'm really sick. I'm out sick right now, in fact, and this is probably my 5th sick call this year.



Pilots calling in sick is just a cost of doing business. If a company is responsible and staffs the airline appropriately, then no revenue should be lost.

When you are an employee getting paid to do a job, and then you don't do your job (for whatever reason), it is reasonable for an employer to question why. This is universal across any job or career. People are held accountable for their actions and decisions. If they have acted professionally, and carried out your job responsibilities faithfully, then they there is nothing to worry about. If they haven't, then they deserve to be called on the carpet.

Everyone gets sick from time to time. Employers expect that. As you said, it is the cost of doing business. But the average person does not call in sick 5 or more times a year. This is why the OP got management's attention. They want to find out if this guy truly is having health problems, or if he is just screwing around (you know as well as I do that it happens). You can call it intimidation if you want, but when an employee isn't doing his job, management has the right, and the responsibility, to ask why.

 

[skydog]

That would be nice not to be able to be fired for calling sick.

-mini

This is probably going to fire some people up, but what the heck...we're just talking.

Why shouldn't an employee be fired for getting sick? Not calling in sick mind you, but getting sick. Understand, I'm not talking about the occasional sick day that everone experiences, but the guy who regularly misses work due to illness.

This person I am referring to is a liability. His work doesn't get done in a timely manner. His co-workers are repeatedly forced to pick up the slack. The employer bears the financial burden of it. The employer is not a charity. He has a business to run, and a customer to serve. This chronically sick employee threatens his business, his livelihood, and the livelihood of all the other employees.

I'm sure we've all had a co-worker who just didn't hold his end up, was a liability to the business and the other employees, and ultimately was let go. Why should that expectation change because the problems are due to illness? It's unfortunate that someone might have such health problems, but why is it the employer's responsibility to bear the burden of them?

Looking forward to hearing some responses.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The only response you'll hear from me is that you're the reason that we need unions to protect ourselves. You sicken me.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

You sicken me.

You will need a doctor's note for that.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

The only response you'll hear from me is that you're the reason that we need unions to protect ourselves. You sicken me.

I can see your point in an industry where you have backups for backups for backups in nearly everything. Why do we have reserves? To cover for contingencies.

In the computer industry, if you're sick, then you're definitely not able to do any programming. If you're sick too much, why shouldn't they pay someone else your wage to come in more often? Like, be less sick?