DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
welcome to my world haha
Odd Bylaw.....
- Thread starter youngflyer
- Start date
welcome to my world haha
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Just before I make any phone calls to the Office of Chief Counsel. . .
The question is, is it legal to count the instrument flight training conducted for one's Part 61 issued Private certificate to be also counted towards one's basic attitude flying and instrument training for an instrument rating add-on?
Part 61.65(d)(2) states that one must have 40 hrs of actual or simulated instrument time for an application for an Instrument Rating.
What some of you are asking is if the required 3 hours of flight solely based off of instruments in your private training can count towards the requirement of 61.65(d)(2)? Correct?
My interpretation, along with that of multiple FSDO inspectors is that you can not. But obviously take that for what it is worth. To apply for an instrument rating, 61.65(a)(1) states that you must hold at least a current private pilot certificate, and then accomplish the required aeronautical experience requirements (40 hrs of simulated or actual instrument training). So, at the completion of one's instrument training they will have a minimum of - total - 43 hours of instrument time in their log book. At least under part 61.
The question is, is it legal to count the instrument flight training conducted for one's Part 61 issued Private certificate to be also counted towards one's basic attitude flying and instrument training for an instrument rating add-on?
Part 61.65(d)(2) states that one must have 40 hrs of actual or simulated instrument time for an application for an Instrument Rating.
What some of you are asking is if the required 3 hours of flight solely based off of instruments in your private training can count towards the requirement of 61.65(d)(2)? Correct?
My interpretation, along with that of multiple FSDO inspectors is that you can not. But obviously take that for what it is worth. To apply for an instrument rating, 61.65(a)(1) states that you must hold at least a current private pilot certificate, and then accomplish the required aeronautical experience requirements (40 hrs of simulated or actual instrument training). So, at the completion of one's instrument training they will have a minimum of - total - 43 hours of instrument time in their log book. At least under part 61.
Blip16
Well-Known Member
yeah, that is what i was trying to get at. if the CFII doesn't write it in the logbook properly it won't count
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
If the CFII doesn't write what properly?
Ian_J
Hubschrauber Flieger
61.65 (a) says: General. A person who applies for an instrument rating must:
(a) (1) Says: Hold at least a current private pilot certificate with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;
When you apply for the rating you must have a PPL. Because it doesn't say otherwise, you may train for the instrument rating with or without a PPL.
Further:
(d) Aeronautical experience. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have logged the following:
Logged the following as a student pilot? PPL? Doesn't say. It just says "logged."
(2) A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time on the areas of operation of this section, to include—
The areas of operation are:
(1) Preflight preparation;
(2) Preflight procedures;
(3) Air traffic control clearances and procedures;
(4) Flight by reference to instruments;
(5) Navigation systems;
(6) Instrument approach procedures;
(7) Emergency operations; and
(8) Postflight procedures.
Does the three hours of simulated instrument flight covered in PPL training fall within at least one of those areas of operation? Absolutely.
If there is a LOI on this subject, I'll be surprised because this is one question that shouldn't be confusing. It's pretty straight forward.
(a) (1) Says: Hold at least a current private pilot certificate with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;
When you apply for the rating you must have a PPL. Because it doesn't say otherwise, you may train for the instrument rating with or without a PPL.
Further:
(d) Aeronautical experience. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have logged the following:
Logged the following as a student pilot? PPL? Doesn't say. It just says "logged."
(2) A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time on the areas of operation of this section, to include—
The areas of operation are:
(1) Preflight preparation;
(2) Preflight procedures;
(3) Air traffic control clearances and procedures;
(4) Flight by reference to instruments;
(5) Navigation systems;
(6) Instrument approach procedures;
(7) Emergency operations; and
(8) Postflight procedures.
Does the three hours of simulated instrument flight covered in PPL training fall within at least one of those areas of operation? Absolutely.
If there is a LOI on this subject, I'll be surprised because this is one question that shouldn't be confusing. It's pretty straight forward.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Student pilots destroy planes, even with instructors aboard. It makes sense to me.
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
If I had a 182, I wouldnt let a student pilot fly it either. I might not even allow a wet ticket private. Thats quite a bit more power than a warrior or a 172.
Not that I am full of experience and 1000's of hours, but when I look back to when I got my private (51hrs) and what I thought I knew, I think, "they let me take that plane by myself?" "what were they thinking??"
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
youngflyer
Well-Known Member
It is actually odd that you just said that. Someone just landed really hard in the 182, crushing the firewall and resulting in it most likely being out for 4 months. Also, a commercial pilot was flying it doing an insurance checkout with a 20,000+ TT ex airline/freight CFI. Ahhhh, atleast I was never able to fly that airplane.
darrenf
resident denizen
Scandinavian13
New Member
One of the reasons I don't belong to a club and why I just use an FBO.
A professional/business environment tends to be run in a sense that follows logic and reason because logic and reason make money.
Clubs often run in obscurity. Some of them are downright cultish. That doesn't mean they're all senseless, because I've seen a few that are pretty nice (one up at KPEO), but most of the ones I've seen are moderately ridiculous.
You can definitely train student pilots for the instrument rating. You can take your Private Pilot and Instrument rating practical tests on your 17th birthday if you meet the requirements and are ready.
You take your Private Pilot practical test, then after passing....you take your instrument.
I've seen DPE's do combo-orals, but mostly I've seen:
Oral
Flight
Lunch
Oral
Flight
Do it in the Warrior. The more basic it is, the better off you'll be.
-mini
You take your Private Pilot practical test, then after passing....you take your instrument.
I've seen DPE's do combo-orals, but mostly I've seen:
Oral
Flight
Lunch
Oral
Flight
Do it in the Warrior. The more basic it is, the better off you'll be.
-mini
Mini just described my checkride(s) exactly. You can get a PPL and the IR together, onn your 17th birthday. I kind of had a combo-oral in the beginning, then the PPL practical, then a little more oral on the IR, then the IR ride.
If I could give any advice...know everything cold if this is what you plan on doing. Be prepared for a very long day (it rivaled my CFI initial)...about 9 hours of testing. As a result I missed half of my own birthday party!
If you decide to go this route, it will be a challenging, but rewarding day. Enjoy the IR training!
Greg
Douglas
Old School KSUX
In seems the G in "GRAB CARD" has been replaced to mean GPS.
I don't know if this has been answered already, I didn't see it, but why do you want to start your instrument training before you are finished with your ppl? What is so great about starting before you are 17? To fly instruments your flying skills need to be second nature, if your still a student pilot your still laying your flying foundation. Also, I doubt that they will change the bylaws because you are probably the only one who has ever been affected by this, since the natural order of things is that people don't start instrument until they are ppl.
good luck
youngflyer
Well-Known Member
There is an ever growing number of people who have joined the club before they are 17 and ready for IR training. 3 and counting, and I was just thinking that if the bylaw was not influenced by insurance, or any other important factor, than what was the point of it existing? I am really going to have about 4 months of being ready for the checkride, and I figured why not put it to use? I am always in the mood for learning more...... I didn't mean to cause such and argument....
Douglas
Old School KSUX
:laff::yeahthat:
i have two cents to throw at the question of using the 3 hour ppl instrument training towards part 61 instrument rating.
I am not sure why this is such a point of contention. Nobody has posted a reg where it says that certain hours don't count. The regs tell you what you can't do, not what you can do. So until they say that it is forbidden, it is allowed. Also remember that part 61 is not a course that you complete, part 141 is; all you need to do is have the minimum time in your logbook required to be eligible for the practical, under 61. That is my take anyway.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
Is the 182 a 182RG or fixed gear? It's possible that they don't think a student pilot can comprehend the idea of "high performance" and "governors". :cwm27:
We are no longer just spoiled with GPS, but those dang G-1000's!! They do everything for you! Kids these days are so lucky.
We are no longer just spoiled with GPS, but those dang G-1000's!! They do everything for you! Kids these days are so lucky.
