high school senior need advice!

[eric6887]

Hey everyone,

Let me just start out by saying that for the longest time my dream has been to become a commercial pilot. With these tough economic times, this year has been pretty stressfull for me (as I'm sure it is with a lot of people) so far. I've been trying to figure out where I want to go next year and how I'm going to pay for it and things are getting worse financially.

The two colleges I narrowed it down to earlier this year have been St. Cloud State and UND. I've visited both schools and liked UND a lot better. At first I thought UND would be the perfict school for me. I loved the flight school, campus, and town. Also I like hockey and the cold weather wouldn't be that much of a change for me.

The only thing that's starting to scare me away from UND is the cost. The nice thing is that tuition and room and board will only cost around $15,000 (I don't have to pay the full out of state) but with things getting worse financially for me I'm starting to have second thoughts. I figured I can work a part time job next year (maybe like 20 hours a week), but then I'de still probably have about $50,000 dollar debt when I graduate. St. Cloud State would be a lot cheaper (part 61 school) but I didn't like the campus or the flight school as much when I visited it. I guess if I went to UND I could always live at home for a year or share an apartment with someone after I graduate, if I needed to.

If there's any professional pilot that's been through all this (with the debt and everything) what advice do you have? Were you glad you did it or do you wish you took the cheap route at a smaller school or FBO?

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[scooter2525]

Hey everyone,

Let me just start out by saying that for the longest time my dream has been to become a commercial pilot. With these tough economic times, this year has been pretty stressfull for me (as I'm sure it is with a lot of people) so far. I've been trying to figure out where I want to go next year and how I'm going to pay for it and things are getting worse financially.

The two colleges I narrowed it down to earlier this year have been St. Cloud State and UND. I've visited both schools and liked UND a lot better. At first I thought UND would be the perfict school for me. I loved the flight school, campus, and town. Also I like hockey and the cold weather wouldn't be that much of a change for me.

The only thing that's starting to scare me away from UND is the cost. The nice thing is that tuition and room and board will only cost around $15,000 (I don't have to pay the full out of state) but with things getting worse financially for me I'm starting to have second thoughts. I figured I can work a part time job next year (maybe like 20 hours a week), but then I'de still probably have about $50,000 dollar debt when I graduate. St. Cloud State would be a lot cheaper (part 61 school) but I didn't like the campus or the flight school as much when I visited it. I guess if I went to UND I could always live at home for a year or share an apartment with someone after I graduate, if I needed to.

If there's any professional pilot that's been through all this (with the debt and everything) what advice do you have? Were you glad you did it or do you wish you took the cheap route at a smaller school or FBO?

Thanks for the help everyone.

cheap route at FBO. If I could do it over again, I would have worked 4 years at wells fargo bank, having them pay for a major in business while I went to community college and then state college (all while living at home) and on the side or over time I would have gotten all my raitings. Thus, I would have graduated with 0 debt and be quite less stressed. A fall back degree (such as business, econ, underwater basketweaving.......) would be a good ace up my sleave if I lost my medical/too many furloughs, etc. FWIW....

 

[Kristie]

what do you think about staying in state and going to the UW while getting your PPL from the east airport? i would assume in-state tuition would save you some good $$ and i know UW-mad is a really good school!!

do you know what you want to major in?

 

[eric6887]

what do you think about staying in state and going to the UW while getting your PPL from the east airport? i would assume in-state tuition would save you some good $$ and i know UW-mad is a really good school!!

do you know what you want to major in?

If I go to UND I was thinking about majoring in aviation management. That way I could get all my certificates and ratings and have a business background too as a back up.

I did think about going to UW- mad and and going to the east airport to get my certificates and ratings. The tuition and room and board there though is still about the same as UND, but the flight costs at the airport are probably cheaper. It's probably too late to apply there now plus it's really competitive to get in. If I wanted to I could always consider transfering next year. That would be a lot easier.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I wish I was in your shoes 8 years ago, I would have saved a lot of money. I didn't realize that you don't need to go to an "aviation university" or get your degree in aviation.

If you plan to go to the airlines, they don't care if you went to UND or Uncle Bob's Flight school. They also don't care what Bachelor's degree you have, as long as you have one.

I recommend going to community college for two years and
concurrently doing your flight training to save money, and then transfer to a university that offers a major your are interested in.

 

[Cessna414JJB]

I wish I was in your shoes 8 years ago, I would have saved a lot of money. I didn't realize that you don't need to go to an "aviation university" or get your degree in aviation.

If you plan to go to the airlines, they don't care if you went to UND or Uncle Bob's Flight school. They also don't care what Bachelor's degree you have, as long as you have one.

I recommend going to community college for two years and
concurrently doing your flight training to save money, and then transfer to a university that offers a major your are interested in.

:yeahthat:

 

[SFCC/UND]

If you read the other threads that high school seniors started, you'll notice that we will say that it's most cost efficient to do the FBO route and go to a community college.

 

[Baronman]

I would go to a State School for your university studies, and study something other than aviation. You will save a huge amount of money on your schooling that you could use for your flight training later.

I graduated with a BS less than ten years ago and spent roughly 30K on my Bachelors degree. If you go the private college route you'll most likely be carrying debt for years, and if you plan on becoming a pilot, you most likely won't be making much money and these loan payments will weigh heavy on your wallet.

As for how you go about your flight training...There are many routes. Personally I would suggest at least getting your private at a local FBO. From there you can better judge what would work best, to continue there or perhaps an academy style environment. I would avoid "Fast Track Programs" that gloat about how fast they can move you through their program. Why rush through what will be the foundation of your training? I think you can see a difference in many of these pilots as well, a "fog" seems to come over them when any theoretical or somewhat obscure reference is brought up.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Agree with everything everyone has said re: costs of puppymills. I'd just add the caveat that while there's nothing wrong with a community college/state school degree in business or whatever vocational fallback you find attractive, one thing that I found nice about having the flying career in my back pocket before going (back) to school was being able to study what I actually found interesting and not having to worry about it being a primary salable skill. Sure, it set me back half a decade in flying, cost a bucketfull of money (although the useless, interesting degree and the FBO training still put me way ahead of the average puppymill grad, debtwise.), but it was the time of my life and I wouldn't change a thing.

Again, just food for thought. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a pragmatic degree to check the box, but most people never get the chance to study what moves them, since the things that are moving in life tend not to be the things that you're paid to do (flying excepted). Whatever you choose, I, too, strongly recommend against the puppymill route (not that they don't turn out perfectly decent pilots, but it's insanely expensive and all glossy brochures aside, no one cares where you learned to fly). Good luck.

PS. I will say that, for the most part (there are exceptions, of course), people who build their entire identity around their vocation, even if it's flying, seem in later life to be the most miserable. MHO, YMMV, etc etc.

 

[MattB]

Get a degree in Economics or some sort of Business Degreee and do your training on the side, like in between semesers and over the summers. Have a real fall back option.

 

[satflyer]

I went to a community college and went the FBO route. Depending on which FBO you go to some can be better or worse organized than a nice university flight department. I would go and hang out at a few local FBOs and talk to students about how they like the place. Only issue with most FBO's is that you wont be able to obtain a student loan since most FBOs arent accredited colleges if I remember correctly. Loan from a bank will do if your parents have good credit and can cosign, thats what I did. if you shop around you can find some with interest rates not too much worse than students loans. If I could do it over again Id still do the FBO route for the flying part but I would do just college basics at the community college then transfer for a 4 year degree in something that ISNT aviation related. No one cares really WHAT your degree is in and getting a degree in aviation will not help you anywhere except in the aviation world. Its safe to say WHEN you get furloughed or have any issue with job security youll need something to fall back on. Flying for a living really takes a HUGE love for flying and LOTS of sacrifices. The training is expensive, building time as a flight instructor pays about as good as McDonalds at most FBOs and its hard work (if you care about your students). Then if you go the regional airline route the pay is just as bad for the first year and youll hardly ever be home and when you are its for 2 days usually max. Commuting/jumpseating is really a pain. But if flying is what you really love its all worth it. Me personally, when I was furloughed I really starting thinking about my future and what would be better for my wife and I and decided to change careers to the FAA and am currently starting class tomorow here in Oklahoma CIty. Good money, good job security, and I can then just afford to fly on the side for fun. But everything was sure alot of fun on that journey. Hope this helps.

 

[JoelT]

A little background first: I am 33 years old and graduated from Auburn in March 1999 (crammed four years of college into five). I have a degree in Finance and did all of my flight training away from the university program. I ended up paying $16,000 for my degree and $23,000 for flight training.

I used to think that having a backup degree like Finance, Accounting, EE, etc. was the way to go for all of the normal "backup" reasons. My thoughts are starting to change about that logic.

I have been out of school for ten years and there is now way in heck than I can remember a thing from school. There are little to no employers out there that would hire me based off of my degree since I have no experience using it. So, my Finance degree is about as useless as an Aviation Management degree. It is a four-year degree which is fantastic but, not much more worth than that.

So, my advice is to get a degree in something you like (I actually enjoyed Finance) and that will get you through school as cheaply as possible. I know education is no where near as cheap as what I paid but, there are deals to be had.

Also, go to the school where you will have the most FUN! That is what college is all about - experiences. These will probably be the most fun years of your life so, make it count. For me, I could not imagine going to a school without a NCAA football program. I still get goosebumps when I see the Eagle fly before a game and shouting "WAR EAGLE!"

 

[Boris Badenov]

Also, go to the school where you will have the most FUN! That is what college is all about - experiences. These will probably be the most fun years of your life so, make it count.

Word. Airplanes will still be there when you wake up from the four year hangover.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Out of curiosity, how is the economy impacting your finances in high school? Did your parents issue you an adjustable rate mortgage on your room? I kid, I kid - but honestly, I'm just curious.

 

[CirrusMonkey]

:yeahthat:

:yeahthat:

 

[Roger, Roger]

I went to a 4-year school and got an aviation degree. However, unlike many here I'm actually glad I did. But I got the A&P as my backup, and found that it helped immensely with my flight knowledge. Nothing teaches you how an airplane works like actually maintaining it.

 

[twotwowoo]

First of all, as everyone else has said, don't major in aviation or aviation management and don't go to a "puppymill" (I love that term!) like UND. I say this from experience.

I majored in aviation management at a well-known state school in Michigan (I almost went to UND, but decided against it because it was too far away from home and family). Over the course of my college career (2005-2009), I spent over $80,000 for educational purposes, including flight fees, room and board, books, and transportation - and I didn't even finish my flight training very much past private (I ran into medical, and then financial, issues). I'm graduating from college in June with a B.S. in Av. Science and Management, so I'm searching for a full time job. Of course, I can't get a flight job because I don't have my commercial license. Despite the degree and a 3.5 GPA, I can't find a job in aviation management. I can't find a job in business. I can't even find a job at McDonalds.

"Aviation management" is not a fallback - the degree means nothing outside of the aviation industry, and little within the industry. The airlines, corpoate flight departments, airports, etc., want employees with a degree and years of related experience. Corportations also want candidates with years of experience. If you've been flying planes for five years and lose your medical, they will take the guy with experience over the person with the degree and no experience.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to a small Christian school in Michigan like Spring Arbor, Calvin, or Alma, and double-majored in Business/Economics and Music. Instead of flying, I would have spent the summers doing internships or jobs that would have given me valuable work experience. If I had time (and money) left over, I would have pursued my ratings at a local FBO. I would recommend this route because it saves money, gives you a marketable degree, and allows you to obtain valuable work experience that employers seek after.

 

[skydog]

First and foremost, may I suggest the following. If possible, arrange to take some flying lessons at your local airport. If you can get your private certificate, great! If not, perhaps you can get to the solo stage. By doing that, you will have opportunities to meet aviation professionals, network, get their advice, and learn if aviation is actually what you want to do. Believe it or not, there is a huge difference between professional/commercial aviation, and the recreational aviation.

Start paying attention to the business of aviation. It may be great fun to fly airplanes, but that is not why airplanes fly. In a nutshell, airplanes fly for 4 reasons: 1) to make money, 2) to conduct research, 3) to kill people and destroy things, 4) because a pilot feels like flying. You may like number 4, but as a professional aviator, the other three (most likely #1) are going to rule your career. Simply put, there is a big differecne between private aviation (#4) and commercial aviation (the other 3). Having an understanding of the business of aviation will better equip you to fulfill your role in it.


Regarding college, Two schools of thought here...

1) Go to college and study what you want to study. It's the one time in your life when you can spend 2 to 4 years learning what you want to learn about. It that is aviation, so be it.

Now for the practical advice...

2) Forget aviation for the time being. What else interests you? Can it be translatable to a career? If so, look into that. If nothing else attracts you as a career, then do some research about where the needs for the next decade or so are going to be. For example, right now there is a shortage in the nursing profession. If you were to get an RN and Bachelor's degree, there will be plenty of opportunities for good paying jobs, wherever you want to live.

Once you have a good paying job, then you will have a the ability save money to pay as you go for flight training which, I think most on here would agree, is the way to go. Actually that is true for pretty much every aspect of life. Avoid debt whenver you can. Being debt free allows you to take advantage of whatever opportunities come along much more easily than if you need to maintain a certain income level in order to service the debt.

College will expose you to many people, opportunites, and schools of thought that never occurred to you. Allow yourself to be receptive to that. You never know, you might discover something that interests you more than aviation. There are 300 million people in this country. Perhaps 100,000 make their living flying airplanes. What are the rest doing? They can't all hate their jobs.

Regarding flight training: what you need is a commercial pilot certificate. It matters not where or how you get it. A commercial certificate obtained through a Part 61 FBO has just as much worth as one obtained through a Part 141 Collegiate aviation program. With that in mind, do some comparison shopping and figure out what works best for you.

If your heart is set on UND, go to UND. You don't have to be an aviation major to take advantage of the aviation opportunies (ie. networking and social) there. You can join the aviation fraternity, flying club, whatver. There's no need to pay their prices for flight training.

Good luck

 

[TXaviator]

Don't go to UND. It has deteriorated into a chinese contract-pilot certificate program.

See more info in the UND forum.

Get a college degree in whatever you enjoy. Make what you enjoy into your career, via determination.

 

[eric6887]

Thanks everyone for your input.

I am kind of confused though because I've been getting a lot of mixed responses. (Not really from this thread, but in general). Some people are saying to go to an aviation school becuase it's better structured and the quality of training is better. Also there are opportunities for interships at some airlines that help you get your foot in the door. And as for the loans... you can always pay them back a little bit each month over a long period of time.

Others are saying do your flight training at an FBO. The airlines don't care where you get your flight training and its a lot cheaper. You'll be screwed if you rack up a massive debt from going to an aviation university.

What I am clear on and will do regardless of which route I take is I will make sure I have some sort of fall back outside of aviation in case I lose my job or can't fly anymore.

Again everyone thanks a lot for the responses and if you have any more input that would be awesome!