Colgan ALPA vote and Street Captains

Propjob

New Member
I'm sorry, but I can't wait for this vote to pass and we can get some work rules. Colgan hired a bunch of street captains for the 1900(even though there were qualified fo's on other aircraft willing to go to the Beech). Now that they are getting rid of the 1900, they are transitioning all of the Street Captains to the SAAB, in the left seat!!! Well I hope they enjoy it while it lasts, because they will all be put back in the right seat when we unite and get some work rules. It would be one thing if nobody wanted the left seat of the beech, but I know that there were some guys that did. Now that the aircraft is going away, those pilots should have to wait for a left seat position according to the senoirity list, which has about 250 guys waiting to upgrade. So to all Colgan FO's and Captains that feel the same way I, and many other FO's do, get out the vote this year!!!!!! Put these street captains at the back of the line where they belong, or out on the street if they refuse to lower themselves to fly in the right seat. Either way I don't care as long as they are not occupying the rightful seats of senior pilots.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
I only have 3 comments on this issue:

1. Yes, Colgan did screw over many qualified FOs.

2. Do not take it out on the street captains personally. Most of my time in the Saab so far is with a street captain who is also on the OC and a strong ALPA supporter, you cant take it out on these guys when they where taking advantage of an opportunity.

3. Vote Yes.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Pitting one group of your pilots against the other isn't a good idea. All of your pilots should be working together to bring ALPA on the property. Don't turn the street CAs against your union before it's even on the property.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
I know we are all supposed to be working together for the greater good but...

Were any of those FOs who got screwed over on property last year?

And if so...

Did any of them not vote for the Union last time around?

If so, too freaking bad.

If no, it sucks it turned out that way and hopefully with a contract is place it won't happen again in the future.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
I'm sorry, but I can't wait for this vote to pass and we can get some work rules. Colgan hired a bunch of street captains for the 1900(even though there were qualified fo's on other aircraft willing to go to the Beech). Now that they are getting rid of the 1900, they are transitioning all of the Street Captains to the SAAB, in the left seat!!! Well I hope they enjoy it while it lasts, because they will all be put back in the right seat when we unite and get some work rules. It would be one thing if nobody wanted the left seat of the beech, but I know that there were some guys that did. Now that the aircraft is going away, those pilots should have to wait for a left seat position according to the senoirity list, which has about 250 guys waiting to upgrade. So to all Colgan FO's and Captains that feel the same way I, and many other FO's do, get out the vote this year!!!!!! Put these street captains at the back of the line where they belong, or out on the street if they refuse to lower themselves to fly in the right seat. Either way I don't care as long as they are not occupying the rightful seats of senior pilots.
LOL. OMG do you fly with tuckandtruck or just goofy in the head?
Either way it's hilarious!
Perhaps someone else can comment but I don't think its possible to actually take away an upgrade strictly as part of a union negotiation? I'd remind you that many of the street captains (when I was there) were a part of the first ALPA runup.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Pitting one group of your pilots against the other isn't a good idea. All of your pilots should be working together to bring ALPA on the property. Don't turn the street CAs against your union before it's even on the property.
And actually thinking about it even more, I will add more. Out of the 5 street captains I know of out of IAD, 4/5 of them I know are in strong support of ALPA, not too sure about the other but Im sure he will vote Yes. Most of these street guys have prior experience with Unions, so they are able to answer questions about their experiences.

If your a Dulles based pilot you also know that our lines suck. In November they tried giving us 4 days trips, with the 4th day ending at 9am and then having an 8 hour hot reserve added on. Everyone made a big deal out of it and they changed our lines. But it didn't stop there. 3 street captains got together and requested a sit down with DB and anyone else who would listen in Manassas. They gathered emails from IAD based FOs, built up a list of complaints and requested that we all either agree or disagree on each point, and to add any other comments. If it wasn't for these 3 street captains, I don't believe it would have gone this far. I believe the sit down is this week.

As PCL said, we are all in the CJC family, and we need to stick together. Whats happened has happened and hopefully in the next 2 months we will have representation and things like this wont happen anymore.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
Also if they are qualified as a Captain at a company, I'm not sure but I'd say not many work rules would allow you to downgrade them just because now an FO is qualified or has the hours. Fact of the matter is at the time the street captain was hired you did not have FO's who had the hours to be a Captain. Now that they have the hours, when a CA vacancy opens up they can bid for it and will still be in front of the street captain when it comes to bidding. Seniority in the end will win out.
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
Downgrade them...doubt it.

Will they forever be on reserve...probably.

There were, by my count, 157 Colgan pilots who voted "NO" by not voting. That 50.9% MAJORITY (albetit slim) of the pilot group apparently didn't care what the company did. Blame the street CAs? I don't think so. That apathy enabled the management to do whatever they chose.

Eligible Employees: 308
ALPA: 148
OTHER: 3

FMI: http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2007/34n038.pdf
 

Airdale

Well-Known Member
Haha...welcome to Colgan dude!

Some Colgan truths (many apply to the entire industry, not just Colgan) -

* Colgan dosen't care about pilots. Period. Its cheaper to put street Captains in the seat than to upgrade someone that would be on a higher pay scale. Therefore, Colgan management couldn't give a horses turd what you or any other pilot thinks is fair, or morally right. Management has no morals. Just numbers. You're one of them. Never gonna change.

* Street Captains are not at fault. In fact, they're just a bit lucky, but that too will cost them. Don't get hostile with your fellow street Captains. You're higher seniority, so when you do upgrade, they'll keep getting bumped down the CA list. Thats the sacrifice they pay. Oh well.

* ALPA, or any other union, will not right the wrong with this situation. They can put stops in place to prevent it, but you'll still be a lowly FO while some guy with more flight time and experience than you gets the hot seat to your left. You'll just have to suck it up, or leave for a company that doesn't do that whole bypass the FO's and hire street Captains thing (goodluck).

* Lastly, just be happy to have a JOB. You could be like the hundreds...no wait...THOUSANDS of us that are out of work in this industry. While I would never in a million years consider working for an operation with the name Colgan ever again, or even any part of the name Colgan...or even anything that rhymes with Colgan or contains letters that can be scrambled into the word Colgan - while you're bitching about not being able to upgrade, I'm slinging 2x4's and nailing boards together with saw dust in my eyes. I'd be happy to have my right seat job back. :rolleyes:
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Downgrade them...doubt it.

Will they forever be on reserve...probably.

There were, by my count, 157 Colgan pilots who voted "NO" by not voting. That 50.9% MAJORITY (albetit slim) of the pilot group apparently didn't care what the company did. Blame the street CAs? I don't think so. That apathy enabled the management to do whatever they chose.

Eligible Employees: 308
ALPA: 148
OTHER: 3

FMI: http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2007/34n038.pdf
Damn, Colgan has grown.

Who is "eligible?" Are management pilots with a seniority # eligible?

If everyone with a seniority numbers currently is able, then 454 pilots are able to vote.
 

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
LOL. OMG do you fly with tuckandtruck or just goofy in the head?
Either way it's hilarious!
Perhaps someone else can comment but I don't think its possible to actually take away an upgrade strictly as part of a union negotiation? I'd remind you that many of the street captains (when I was there) were a part of the first ALPA runup.

Lol.. drunk? Joe likes to live in the past, and is unable to move on. I guess if anybody else doesn't appreciate getting bounced for a street captain, they must be feeding off the foul wordage i spew.. but w/e I must be estranged because i did many "360's to the gate when things weren't working" and I must be goofy thinking that nobody would be upset by a company hiring street captains, or 3 week fo to ca's, or whatever scheme somebody's got worked out. Guess we will agree to differ... I stuck it out through the crap, worked hard, and am in an ok place for my needs. At the end of the day, nobody will question how I got to where I am.

A union will, nor could not force an equipment or pay grade change upon a dues paying member. I don't know the particulars per say, but you would have to file a grievance, and the maybe get some money out of it.
You wouldn't want a union to have the power to decide what seat you fly from, and in what equipment.

I guess i also have to ask, do you fully have the required times? Colgan requires what, 2200 TT, 500 type in the SAAB? Also the unwritten rule of 1 "winter" in equipment. Sadly, if you don't meet the 2200 or such, they can pretty much do as they want, not that they wouldn't anyways. If you do have time, and were rolled over on class, call Buddy Casey. His last email said you could ;)

Further, it seems like a lot of "brand new to the site" people are popping up across the boards on "this". Smoke alarm is reading kinda high on, I'm watching for the flame. Bumed that you got bumped though, if that is how it happened, this is the second thime these CA's have bumped an FO from upgrade, and that being the case, hope somebody chat's with them
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
By this reasoning, I should be bumped outta my CA seat by the senior FOs that didn't bid CA when they could for QoL issues. Guys didn't bid the 1900 b/c they didn't want it for some reason (read QoL issues).

What you need is some sort of contract language that deals with vacancies and displacements. If your equipment is being eliminated, obviously that's a displacement. By your reasoning, the 7 CA slots here in MEM that were being displaced to ATL a couple of months ago should have been re-opened to FOs that hadn't bid for CA yet. It doesn't work like that here. FOs can bid on a vacancy, but even with a contract, I doubt they would have been able to bid on a displacement from the 1900s to the Saabs.
 

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
I think part of the problem is that there really isn't a huge need for SAAB CA's right now, so things have gone stagnent.

Technically it is a Displacement, But in a re-bid they would not be able to hold their position. Street CA's at colgan are supposed to have a 2 yr seat lock, which is dissolved by the displacement So now they will move to the saab with the typical 1 yr contract, making them eligble for the Q400 before many of the SAAB fo's that are qualified and senior will even have a shot at the SAAb left seat. It's a bum deal... from what i've heard, a few of these guys should prob. be rewarded for their performace with a pink slip anyways.

Friends still on the 1900 say most all of them already carry an "us vs. them" peronality, even without flaming im not counting on their votes
 

Propjob

New Member
Look, all I am saying is that it is totally wrong to hire a guy off the street to the left seat for one airplane and then award the left seat of an airplane that has no problem being filled. They hired these guys into the left seat of the 1900 because they claimed that there were no qualed guys in the company. There are qualed guys in the saab, they are being passed over. By the way the upgrade times are 2000 TT and 1000 In Type. For every 100 hours over the 1000 In Type, they will take 100 hours off of the 2000 TT. I got that from a Flight Standars Captain. Do I think the union will majically fix this, no, not right away. But when we get some work rules in place it will stop. But I still think that there should be a seniority based bid for seat assignment.
 

esa17

Well-Known Member
Could someone clue me in on the voting process and how a non-vote is a "no" vote. It was my impression that the NLRB and other agencies needed a majority of "those who voted" not of "those eligible to vote". Or, was the "no vote" early on in the process when they need 30% of the eligible population?

EDIT: Please let me be clear, I am interested in the process and not the politics.
 

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
I think they're just angry. It's the same type of talk as calling someone a scab when they haven't crossed a picket line. Lots of angry, empty rhetoric.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
It doesn't seem right to take this out on the street captains. You know, you go to Colgan and there are going to be shanaigans. That's the Colgan's fault, not the street captains, and when you went to Colgan, you signed up to play ball with them and their "rules" or lack thereof. That's the trade-off, you go thinking you'll get a quick upgrade but the cost is having no contract and people upgrading ahead of you.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Could someone clue me in on the voting process and how a non-vote is a "no" vote. It was my impression that the NLRB and other agencies needed a majority of "those who voted" not of "those eligible to vote". Or, was the "no vote" early on in the process when they need 30% of the eligible population?

EDIT: Please let me be clear, I am interested in the process and not the politics.
Unfortunately, NMB rules are that a non-vote is assumed to be a "no" vote. You have to have 50% +1 of the eligible pilots voting in favor of representation, not just 50% +1 of the members that voted. This is why you absolutely must encourage your fellow pilots to vote. Not taking the time to vote is what sunk the election last year.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Look, all I am saying is that it is totally wrong to hire a guy off the street to the left seat for one airplane and then award the left seat of an airplane that has no problem being filled. They hired these guys into the left seat of the 1900 because they claimed that there were no qualed guys in the company. There are qualed guys in the saab, they are being passed over. By the way the upgrade times are 2000 TT and 1000 In Type. For every 100 hours over the 1000 In Type, they will take 100 hours off of the 2000 TT. I got that from a Flight Standars Captain. Do I think the union will majically fix this, no, not right away. But when we get some work rules in place it will stop. But I still think that there should be a seniority based bid for seat assignment.
If they had a "vacancy" for the open CA seats, then the qualled FOs would have the chance to bid for the seats. What you're seeing is a "displacement." If the FOs on the Saab had taken the chance to upgrade on the 1900, they'd be getting the Saab seats right now since Colgan wouldn't have had to hire street captains. Hate to say it, but this is actually the RIGHT way to do things. The only difference between what Colgan is doing and most other ALPA/Teamster/Independent Union carriers is that the union carriers would have benefits to go with the guys getting displaced from the 1900 to the Saab.
 
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