Allegiant + union

[jynxyjoe]

Was pretty encouraged today after a long phone call with an old friend. He's at Allegiant (1.5 years or so?) and has said he's ready for a union. This guy, much like I used to be, is an admitted anti-union pilot who is conservative in his beliefs. Now, Allegiant is hiring ex captains with 10,000 hours of TPIC in wide body aircraft, and he naturally is worried it could be him someday. Not only is he now pro-union but he is also very interested in a national senority list. Sounds like their pilots (at least one ex-colgan guy) are trying to get a union drive started. Awesome news.

Warms up the old heart. Here's hoping for a better '09.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

They definitely need one. Reminds me of Lynx, there was this guy I met who was a Dash captain at Mesa, moved to Lynx and in 3 or 4 months quit. Apparently Lynx kept putting new hires above him in seniority (at the time that was the only way they could attract applicants.)

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

If they're interested in ALPA, let me know and I'll get them in touch with the right people to make it happen. This is actually surprising news. I talked to Captain Prater about this last month, and he said that he hadn't heard a peep at all about anyone at Allegiant being interested in a union.

 

[jynxyjoe]

If they're interested in ALPA, let me know and I'll get them in touch with the right people to make it happen. This is actually surprising news. I talked to Captain Prater about this last month, and he said that he hadn't heard a peep at all about anyone at Allegiant being interested in a union.

They are talking to APA right now. If APA is the American union. The guy I know is like me, just a "yes/no" voter. He isn't an organizer, but if he does change his mind I'll certainly pass him along. Seggy knows the guy down there at Allegiant who would be the man to talk to: The crazy irish well digger.

 

[skydog]

Was pretty encouraged today after a long phone call with an old friend. He's at Allegiant (1.5 years or so?) and has said he's ready for a union. This guy, much like I used to be, is an admitted anti-union pilot who is conservative in his beliefs. Now, Allegiant is hiring ex captains with 10,000 hours of TPIC in wide body aircraft, and he naturally is worried it could be him someday. Not only is he now pro-union but he is also very interested in a national senority list. Sounds like their pilots (at least one ex-colgan guy) are trying to get a union drive started. Awesome news.

Warms up the old heart. Here's hoping for a better '09.

I'm trying to make sense of your post. What exactly is your friend worried about?

 

[Socal321]

I'm trying to make sense of your post. What exactly is your friend worried about?

Good, I thought it was just me...

 

[jynxyjoe]

Work hard, get hours.
Get upgrade.
Get to real airline as FO
Stay long enough to make captain on widebody.
Furlough
Make 1/4 what you did before working as FO for Allegiant
Retire with nothing


His concern (and mine). National seniority list would, in both our opinion, help mitigate some of those concerns.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

If they want a national seniority list, then why are they dealing with the APA, which only represents American?

 

[Maurus]

If they want a national seniority list, then why are they dealing with the APA, which only represents American?

Duh! It is easier to get a national seniority list for two pilot groups than it is for tons of pilot groups

 

[ppragman]

Work hard, get hours.
Get upgrade.
Get to real airline as FO
Stay long enough to make captain on widebody.
Furlough
Make 1/4 what you did before working as FO for Allegiant
Retire with nothing


His concern (and mine). National seniority list would, in both our opinion, help mitigate some of those concerns.

If there was a national seniority list the problem would be:

Get upgrade
Get to real airline as FO
Stay long enough to make captain on widebody
Furlough
Not be ever able to get a job again because no airline will hire you because they have to pay you twice what they'd have to pay someone with less seniority.
Retire with nothing.

OMG, the same thing happens. I gaurantee you that there will be a serious discrimination problem if NSL goes through, I want protection too, but I don't want to be discriminated against when I need a job the most.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The idea being tossed around is that all contracts would be negotiated to include a clause requiring airlines to hire in seniority order per the NSL. If that was accomplished, then worries about "discrimination" would disappear.

But I don't really believe an NSL will ever happen anyway, so it's probably a moot point.

 

[Socal321]

Work hard, get hours.
Get upgrade.
Get to real airline as FO
Stay long enough to make captain on widebody.
Furlough
Make 1/4 what you did before working as FO for Allegiant
Retire with nothing


His concern (and mine). National seniority list would, in both our opinion, help mitigate some of those concerns.

I still don't get it, is that your friends example or just a hypothetical one? Your friend is worried what's going to happen if he will be let go/furloughed from allegiant when he turns 55 and forced to go to the bottom some place else? I'm sorry your first post was totally confusing, especially the wide body part.

 

[ppragman]

The idea being tossed around is that all contracts would be negotiated to include a clause requiring airlines to hire in seniority order per the NSL. If that was accomplished, then worries about "discrimination" would disappear.

But I don't really believe an NSL will ever happen anyway, so it's probably a moot point.

What really needs to happen is that first year pilot pay for FOs and CAs should be much much more. I don't think $45k per year is unreasonable.

 

[grnclvrs]

Was pretty encouraged today after a long phone call with an old friend. He's at Allegiant (1.5 years or so?) and has said he's ready for a union.

Must be a Florida guy. Any push for representation at Allegiant would start with the current pilot advisory group being recognized by the NMB. Maybe you heard AAPA...

 

[typhoonpilot]

Vote a union in at Allegiant and watch the airline go under/get sold. I was at WestAir and voted for ALPA ( back when I was young and idealistic ). Within a few years Tim and Maurice sold the airline to Mesa and that was the end of WestAir.

History has a way of repeating itself.



Typhoonpilot

 

[jynxyjoe]

Vote a union in at Allegiant and watch the airline go under/get sold. I was at WestAir and voted for ALPA ( back when I was young and idealistic ). Within a few years Tim and Maurice sold the airline to Mesa and that was the end of WestAir.

History has a way of repeating itself.



Typhoonpilot

We didn't have a union at Colgan and we got sold just fine.

Allegiant could get sold before a union vote ever gets started.

History has a way of repeating itself. A company gets started by someone. It fails immediately or it continues on making money. At some point the owner sells out the company to investors or dies and leaves it to someone.

You think the company got sold because you got a union? Maybe the company was just making money and it was a good time to sell?

Fedex has a union. Are they next gonna go under or get sold?

 

[BobDDuck]

I think TyphoonPilot was referring specifically to the owners of Allegiant (and WestAir).

 

[jynxyjoe]

I think TyphoonPilot was referring specifically to the owners of Allegiant (and WestAir).

Ah. Well if that's true then I use the Colgan example. We got sold before there was EVER any talk of organizing a union. So I think views are wrong because his one example is not a metric.

 

[Velocipede]

Vote a union in at Allegiant and watch the airline go under/get sold.Typhoonpilot

Typical anti-Union threat from someone who obviously blames the Union for the management decision to sell his airline. You hear the same things from all the ex-TWA, USAir and UAL pilots at B6 as reasons why they won't vote for ALPA.

The decision to sell an airline is made strictly on how much the sale is going to make for the current owners/shareholders. However, they never tire of using the "I'll sell this F'ing place before I see a Union on the property" threat.

 

[ladder360]

But I don't really believe an NSL will ever happen anyway, so it's probably a moot point.

I've been thinking about the NSL discussions lately and remember a thread from 7 months ago or so, but I don't remember much about it.

What are the biggest roadblocks that make you believe an NSL will never happen? Do you think it would be a good thing or bad?