Airlineapps ?’s

[Bamaaviator]

So I’m almost finished with my application and have a few questions.

I’m about to send it out to a few regionals and was wondering, regarding my GPA, should I just estimate the GPA as best I can? Or should I first request my transcript to get the actual instead of guessing before hitting the submit button? I read on another thread which is like 3 years old that someone suggested you put ‘GPA-Estimated’ if you can’t recall exactly without the transcript in front of you. Is that still good advice?

On the subject of flight times, most of my times are dead on and reflect what’s in my logbook, however, my PIC and total time were off by about 10-15 hours. I understand the app rounds the flight times, so that has a little to do with the differences, but it appears now that I made some minor logging errors over the years. Will my app be looked at with flight times that are off by 10 hours compared to what my resume says?

Regarding job history, I was a ‘job hopper’ up until about my late 20’s, when I finally decided to grow up a little. I’ve gotten much better at staying at my last 2 jobs (aviation jobs) for longer. Do airline recruiters look at job hopping unfavorably, even if much of it was when you were much younger (I’m 31)? I understand these days job hopping is kinda considered the new ‘normal.’ But how do airline recruiters look at that even in today’s hiring climate?

 

[jtrain609]

Get it right.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Lying (deliberately or otherwise) on an employment application gets you released from employment.

So, I’d take the time to get it correct if I were you.

 

[Ian_J]

I would suggest you fill out applications for regional airline with major airlines in mind. In other words, get it right now and continually update them, refining as you go in order to have a really stellar product by the time bigger airlines start wanting to take a look at you.

So I’m almost finished with my application and have a few questions.

I’m about to send it out to a few regionals and was wondering, regarding my GPA, should I just estimate the GPA as best I can? Or should I first request my transcript to get the actual instead of guessing before hitting the submit button? I read on another thread which is like 3 years old that someone suggested you put ‘GPA-Estimated’ if you can’t recall exactly without the transcript in front of you. Is that still good advice?

You need copies of your transcripts anyway as part of your own personal record. Get them now. All of them, from HS on. While you may not have to provide them directly to a regional airline, you may to a bigger airline down the road. I would only suggest "GPA-Estimated" if it is absolutely impossible to get a copy of your transcripts.

On the subject of flight times, most of my times are dead on and reflect what’s in my logbook, however, my PIC and total time were off by about 10-15 hours. I understand the app rounds the flight times, so that has a little to do with the differences, but it appears now that I made some minor logging errors over the years. Will my app be looked at with flight times that are off by 10 hours compared to what my resume says?

You have to make them match to within a few hours of each other, and they should really only be off due to rounding errors. If you cannot find the errors in your logbook, what I suggest is to make a one line entry in your logbook correcting the error and making an explanation in the remarks.

Do you have an electronic logbook? If not, you need to get one in my opinion.

Regarding job history, I was a ‘job hopper’ up until about my late 20’s, when I finally decided to grow up a little. I’ve gotten much better at staying at my last 2 jobs (aviation jobs) for longer. Do airline recruiters look at job hopping unfavorably, even if much of it was when you were much younger (I’m 31)? I understand these days job hopping is kinda considered the new ‘normal.’ But how do airline recruiters look at that even in today’s hiring climate?

For a regional I wouldn't worry about it and no matter what you can't change the past. They are probably just going to be interested in your aviation jobs. Going forward you should be concerned with a solid professional aviation history that shows progression and leadership.

Have you had a buddy in the know check out your application?

 

[Bamaaviator]

Thanks for the replies. Also, another thing that came to mind was employment dates. Do you need to be exact on those? I honestly cannot remember the exact dates I was employed as a lifeguard 10 years ago, but I have a pretty good 'ballpark' idea.

 

[nibake]

If it's something where you don't have a reasonable ability to actually figure out the employment date, like you mention, a non-aviation job from nearly ten years ago, the nearest month is probably fine. As long as your not misrepresenting something. I also changed jobs many times, it is a potential negative but we are talking about regionals here. Be honest, qualified, and don't get in a fist fight with the interviewer. Being diligent is an added bonus. I was asked about multiple job changes in my interview at a national airline, but it was framed in more of a neutral way than negative, i.e. "You've worked a lot of jobs over the years, what is it about our brand that makes you want to have a career here?"

Also, consider a logbook audit now. I made up my own technique for auditing my logbook in which I numbered pages and added totals on an excel spreadsheet (actually multiple sheets for multiple logbooks.) I had four logbooks, and using that method I was able to isolate quite a few discrepancies, including onces I didn't even know where there. This allowed me to have a huge level of confidence in the accuracy of my times. And yes, airline apps probably won't match exactly since a method that no one actually uses for logging is used, but it should be within reason.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Regarding flight time, electronic is really the way to go. Computers are fast and accurate, while us humans are slow and sloppy.

Marvelous combination really.

Be honest, qualified, and don't get in a fist fight with the interviewer.

WORLD STAAAAAAAAAR

 

[Jordan93]

Order the transcripts and make sure it’s exact. You don’t want to over/under inflate. Get your logbooks to match as much as possible. I never did electronic and regretted it. Just got the CJO at Delta and airline apps was showing 4 hours more TT and multi but Delta didn’t mention a word about it when they reviewed it. I’d still get it as exact as possible though. One less thing to worry about. Attention to detail is critical.

 

[thevideographer]

If you get an interview you will probably need sealed transcripts anyway, so order 3 or 4 copies and open one for yourself.

 

[nibake]

If you get an interview you will probably need sealed transcripts anyway, so order 3 or 4 copies and open one for yourself.

Really? When? I have never had transcripts for high school or college requested at any sort of job interview or application. The idea of a regional asking for high school transcripts seems way out there. The only time I can remember ever needing transcripts was for applications to other education/degree programs. I haven't ever had anyone even ask for my college diploma, granted, it wasn't a hard requirement anywhere I've been.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Really? When? I have never had transcripts for high school or college requested at any sort of job interview or application. The idea of a regional asking for high school transcripts seems way out there. The only time I can remember ever needing transcripts was for applications to other education/degree programs. I haven't ever had anyone even ask for my college diploma, granted, it wasn't a hard requirement anywhere I've been.

My regional didn't ask, but I think everyone else did. Mind, I don't remember exactly.

 

[mastermags]

And if you need to go to the bathroom during the interview, just hold it until you can go to the parking lot.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

And if you need to go to the bathroom during the interview, just hold it until you can go to the parking lot.

Oh. That explains a lot.

 

[ppragman]

So I’m almost finished with my application and have a few questions.

I’m about to send it out to a few regionals and was wondering, regarding my GPA, should I just estimate the GPA as best I can? Or should I first request my transcript to get the actual instead of guessing before hitting the submit button? I read on another thread which is like 3 years old that someone suggested you put ‘GPA-Estimated’ if you can’t recall exactly without the transcript in front of you. Is that still good advice?

On the subject of flight times, most of my times are dead on and reflect what’s in my logbook, however, my PIC and total time were off by about 10-15 hours. I understand the app rounds the flight times, so that has a little to do with the differences, but it appears now that I made some minor logging errors over the years. Will my app be looked at with flight times that are off by 10 hours compared to what my resume says?

Regarding job history, I was a ‘job hopper’ up until about my late 20’s, when I finally decided to grow up a little. I’ve gotten much better at staying at my last 2 jobs (aviation jobs) for longer. Do airline recruiters look at job hopping unfavorably, even if much of it was when you were much younger (I’m 31)? I understand these days job hopping is kinda considered the new ‘normal.’ But how do airline recruiters look at that even in today’s hiring climate?

You sound like me.

Get your GPA right, your unofficial transcript will have an accurate GPA on it. Get it right if only so it's not a surprise if you're wrong. It would be embarrassing to estimate 3.7 and have a 2.7 in reality.

My logbooks were kind of janky for airline apps, after 7000hrs I'm off by about 100 between airline apps and my actual logbook, I went through my logbook and all the decimal times added up between all the airplanes properly, so I'm not sure why AirlineApps is off other than rounding. I took note of it, it's not that big of a deal just be able to explain the discrepancy. I went to an electronic logbook last spring and it's way better. You should do that too.

As for your resume, make your resume match the most conservative number you come up with on airline apps, as long as it's less than 5% I can't see it being a big deal for anyone other than someplace like FedEx or whatever. Maybe this is bad advice, but I don't really care that much if I'm off by a tiny bit here or there, I also haven't logged at least 100hrs of flight time I could have logged flying with friends, and I've never bothered to log any simulator time except when I needed it for instrument or night currency. I haven't logged a single hour of time I've given dual as a company instructor, nor have I logged the time I've given instruction during a checking event. It's in my company flight and duty logs, it "counted" and I got paid for it, but why?

Further, when I was getting my logbook together, I found I had missed nearly a whole month of entries many moons ago. If a company doesn't want to hire me because I messed up something 10 years ago in a book that doesn't really matter except for currency I'm not sure it is the kind of place or people I want to work with. I'll never overstate my times, if anything they're understated, but it's pretty close to accurate.

Nobody has ever cared about all the jobs I've had. Maybe airlines do? Maybe I'm not getting called from some places because of that? But if a company doesn't want to hire me because I went and had adventures as a young person or because I got sick and lost my medical for a bit (which I job hopped through to pay bills), or because I quit working for a dude who was a straight up racist... then I probably don't want to work there to begin with. I've job hopped and it's really never held me back, in fact it's been quite the opposite, people have said, "wow you have a diverse background for someone in their 30's." I've been a lot more stable in my career since I was about 26 or so, still nobody has cared, and I've had opportunities that have vastly exceeded my own perception of my qualifications.

Just be upfront and honest with people - it's 2019, don't stress about it. Your life is what it is, and so is your logbook. Be laid back, tell the truth, and be as accurate and forthcoming as is possible and I don't think you'll have an issue. If "Brand X" gives you a hard time because you job hopped in your 20s or because you're off by 10-15 hours in a decade spanning career do you really want to work there?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Someone got in a fist fight with an interviewer? What's that story?

 

[jtrain609]

Someone got in a fist fight with an interviewer? What's that story?

The interviewer decided it was a superior way to establish alpha and hired them as the CEO.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

“Job hopping” is a antiquated idea. You suppose to just fly a Cessna 206 for 4 years, a king air for 3 and a light citation for 5? My ass.


I’v had 6 jobs or so in 7-8 years. Every one I added a larger type rating, made more money, and added good stories and airplanes to my logbook.

I remember my current job the recruiter called me out on it for the first time “well I see you’ve had a lot of jobs over the years”

“Yea, 1 I was laid off, 2 of them I didn’t apply I got recruited, and everyone one of them didn’t have a G650 online, they have all been stepping stones. You have a G650 though. Hopefully it’s my last step for awhile”

Hired.

Still haven’t had anyone ask for my school records though....

 

[Bamaaviator]

Thanks for the responses and advice. I think an electronic logbook is in order definitely. I actually went back over my times in the logbook a few minutes ago and discovered my total time is only off by 4 hours not 10-15. It was something else that was off, I think it was a discrepancy regarding my ASEL and AMEL times compared to my TT.

I’ll definitely get the transcripts ordered. It was tempting to hit that submit button while not knowing my exact GPA, but my gut was telling me to wait and verify.

 

[Bamaaviator]

“Job hopping” is a antiquated idea. You suppose to just fly a Cessna 206 for 4 years, a king air for 3 and a light citation for 5? My ass.


I’v had 6 jobs or so in 7-8 years. Every one I added a larger type rating, made more money, and added good stories and airplanes to my logbook.

I remember my current job the recruiter called me out on it for the first time “well I see you’ve had a lot of jobs over the years”

“Yea, 1 I was laid off, 2 of them I didn’t apply I got recruited, and everyone one of them didn’t have a G650 online, they have all been stepping stones. You have a G650 though. Hopefully it’s my last step for awhile”

Hired.

Still haven’t had anyone ask for my school records though....

Yea at one of my non aviation jobs the interviewer was looking over my application and resume and bluntly said “jeeze, you’ve had a lot of jobs here I see, is there a reason for that?” It caught me off guard, and i forget what I said, but I remember coming up with something fast to avoid an awkward moment. Nobody else has ever said anything about that to me, but this guy had an issue with it. The funny thing is that this was also the same individual that quit that company 8 months later. I guess the ‘rules’ don’t apply to him lol.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Yea at one of my non aviation jobs the interviewer was looking over my application and resume and bluntly said “jeeze, you’ve had a lot of jobs here I see, is there a reason for that?” It caught me off guard, and i forget what I said, but I remember coming up with something fast to avoid an awkward moment. Nobody else has ever said anything about that to me, but this guy had an issue with it. The funny thing is that this was also the same individual that quit that company 8 months later. I guess the ‘rules’ don’t apply to him lol.

It’s one thing if you go form regional to regional to regional, or charter citation to charter citation to corporate citation, or flight school to flight school to flight school.

But going from:
Life guard
Sales guy
Line service
Aviation company assistant
172
182
210
206
340
King air
Citation
Bigger citation
Regional,
Major etc etc

or whatever is perfectly fine in my book. It shows forward progress and a aggressive attitude in taking the next step, taking check rides, experience etc.

I have a bigger problem with the guys that went from

High school/college
CFI at one airport/plane for 2 years
Regional for 5...and finally moved out from moms at year 2.

where’s your experience or stories to be had over a beer?