$2,400.00 To Unlock The Charts. Say Whaaaattt????

JaceTheAce'sDad

JaceTheAce'sDad

Flying the Duchess.
I couldn't believe what the Director of Operations told me, so I had to check for myself. Yes, Garmin does charge $2,400.00 for the unlock key to unlock the software already installed in the G600's we use in the FedEx Caravans we fly. Wow, that seems like a lot of money. But, perhaps I'm not being reasonable. My first reaction is to recommend that no company reward such outrageous pricing regardless how deep their pockets may be. But, perhaps I'm not being reasonable. That's one pricey piece of software to get at a pricey piece of software. It's already there, just needs to be unlocked. You'd think that if someone pays big money for a hunk of navigational and attitudinal hardware full of software, you could use all of its capabilities. But no, I think I'm being unreasonable. Other people have asked similar questions. I found one on Jeppesen's website that went like this:
Q: I've been told the high price Garmin charges for ChartView is to cover fees Jeppesen imposes on Garmin to display Jeppesen chart. Is this true?

A: No. Jeppesen has no direct influence on the fee Garmin charges for ChartView.

This came from here:
http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/legal/charts/ads-faq.jsp

You also may think that if they want an additional 2400 bucks to get at some parent software, it must really be some awesome stuff. They even give you two types of charting to choose from for displaying on that sexy MFD of yours. MF Display, what's that stand for? Oh yes, Multi Function. Or does it?

Anyway, you can have either Garmin's very own NOAA aeronautical charts displayed up there called FliteCharts or pay for a Jeppesen subscription to utilize their ChartView or by a newer name, JeppViewMFD charts. The price for the U.S. Western region as of yesterday was $345.00/installation/year including 4 separate installs on Jeppesen's iPad app. Which brings us to my question.

Apple App Store reviews of Jeppesen's apps are terrible. I'm wondering if their apps are that bad, how are the JeppViewMFD charts working on the Garmin MFD's? Has anyone used charts from either Garmin or Jeppesen displayed on the MFD of their Garmin units? If so, how was it to use? Again, I use the G600, but I doubt there is much difference between units. But then again, perhaps I'm not being reasonable.
 
Your assumption that you are not being reasonable might be an

image.jpg
.
 
JaceTheAce'sDad said:
My first reaction is to recommend that no company reward such outrageous pricing regardless how deep their pockets may be. But, perhaps I'm not being reasonable. That's one pricey piece of software to get at a pricey piece of software. It's already there, just needs to be unlocked.
Click to expand...

The aviation business is a hard one. Garmin spends many millions on R&D, labor, manufacturing, and certification costs before a unit ever gets sold. Then, Garmin rarely sells more than 1000 units of anything a year. It's lots of costs borne by a small number of fielded units. Company-wide, Garmin had a 13% net margin for 2014 (source: Garmin 10-K). My view is that anything below about 15% is low for a tech manufacturing business.

To the actual question, I have flown a G-1000 aircraft part 135. I did not really use the charts much and just found my iPad to be good enough.
 
Last edited:
You need to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Your quoting a Jepp regional price along with a Garmin nation-wide price. The cost of Jepp and Garmin for the same coverage is pretty much the same. Furthermore, Jeppesen does the exact same thing with their software; ALL of the data is included, you just need the correct code to reveal it. AND the code cost you dearly.

To answer your question, I use Jepp charts on both a G1000 and aG3000 system, they are easy to access. The one issue is that Garmin loads the Jepp charts as PDF (type) document; on some charts, the pixilation is terrible! You have to zoom in to acquire the details of the chart but then can't see it clearly.
 
hook_dupin said:
The aviation business is a hard one. Garmin spends many millions on R&D, labor, manufacturing, and certification costs before a unit ever gets sold. Then, Garmin rarely sells more than 1000 units of anything a year. It's lots of costs borne by a small number of fielded units. Company-wide, Garmin had a 13% net margin for 2014 (source: Garmin 10-K). My view is that anything below about 15% is low for a tech manufacturing business.

To the actual question, I have flown a G-1000 aircraft part 135. I did not really use the charts much and just found my iPad to be good enough.
Click to expand...

Great post Hook. Costs of course are a major factor in any pricing decision. I'm sure smart people were involved in this one. Yes, they have substantial costs many of which occur because of the legal certification requirements imposed. I get that. But the labor theory of value is not the only one involved. Or in this case, the cost theory. The value theory prevails in all pricing of goods and services. The value received by the buyer has to be worth the investment at the same time the value given by the buyer (in money) must be greater than the costs to produce. That may be 13-15% in this case, as you say. If not, then maybe Garmin should not have even made the charts available as an option. Clearly, their customers have seen the value of the units sans charts great enough to offset the acquisition costs. Not so clear is the value of the charts in the MFD themselves. That's what I'm trying to determine. What income sources would arise for Garmin if the charts were available for free since the software is there languishing unused anyway?

And your last sentence speaks volumes. The charts on the iPad were good enough. I'm assuming your G-1000 had the charts available on the MFD. Thinking about it, I think I too would rather have the charts on a separate place like usual. An iPad with Foreflight would be a hecka lot cheaper. And I like the MFD for other things than charting. For example, I use the automatic range feature. One of the things I like is that it will catch my eye as it changes approaching a fix. This tells me I'm at a fix. With the chart up there, I wouldn't have that flashing color and lights grabbing my attention. I think an iPad would be good enough too.
 
dustoff17 said:
You need to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Your quoting a Jepp regional price along with a Garmin nation-wide price. The cost of Jepp and Garmin for the same coverage is pretty much the same. Furthermore, Jeppesen does the exact same thing with their software; ALL of the data is included, you just need the correct code to reveal it. AND the code cost you dearly.

To answer your question, I use Jepp charts on both a G1000 and aG3000 system, they are easy to access. The one issue is that Garmin loads the Jepp charts as PDF (type) document; on some charts, the pixilation is terrible! You have to zoom in to acquire the details of the chart but then can't see it clearly.
Click to expand...

I'm actually not trying to compare apples to apples. The $2,400.00 is to unlock the Garmin software regardless what charts you buy later, Garmin or Jepp.

As to your experience, thank you. That's one more nail in the MFD Chart coffin.
 
JaceTheAce'sDad said:
I'm actually not trying to compare apples to apples. The $2,400.00 is to unlock the Garmin software regardless what charts you buy later, Garmin or Jepp.

As to your experience, thank you. That's one more nail in the MFD Chart coffin.
Click to expand...
Sorry, misread your OP....
 
JaceTheAce'sDad said:
Clearly, their customers have seen the value of the units sans charts great enough to offset the acquisition costs. Not so clear is the value of the charts in the MFD themselves. That's what I'm trying to determine.
Click to expand...

Some customers don't blink an eye to have every option turned on. In my view, the chart thing is Garmin's version of clear coat. Important pricing lesson: some people are willing to pay more. Let them.
 
Same thing with synthetic vision - just an additional database, a reprogram, and a hefty check to make it happen.

I've watched plenty of 135 and 91 clients as well as owner operators go through the G1000/3000 and I've seen a whopping one person who actually used the built in charts. iPads have made it too easy.

Also, if you boot it up in the maintenance mode, there's a lot of stuff your company may choose to selectively disable (flight director styles, for example).
 
Last edited:
hook_dupin said:
Some customers don't blink an eye to have every option turned on. In my view, the chart thing is Garmin's version of clear coat. Important pricing lesson: some people are willing to pay more. Let them.
Click to expand...

Far be it from me to stop them. And that's both funny and telling, "Garmin's version of clear coat". Love it.
 
JeppUpdater said:
Same thing with synthetic vision - just an additional database, a reprogram, and a hefty check to make it happen.

I've watched plenty of 135 and 91 clients as well as owner operators go through the G1000/3000 and I've seen a whopping one person who actually used the built in charts. iPads have made it too easy.

Also, if you boot it up in the maintenance mode, there's a lot of stuff your company may choose to selectively disable (flight director styles, for example).
Click to expand...

Thanks JeppUpdater<<<<< (your name is what I'm hoping to eventually avoid, when we finally get FAA authorization to use digital charts alone). And that's another nail in the coffin, "I've seen a whopping one person who actually used the built in charts. iPads have made it too easy."
 
It's aviation, it's expensive. And most of that cost is to pay for lawyers. Watched a friends dad years ago machine a bronze bushing for the scissor linkage in the nose of his Bonanza.

"Bill, why don't you just buy that bushing?"

"Because lawyers make a $5 part cost $320."
 
Not an isolated case.

I've got a AV300 WSI weather receiver in my Bonanza, which uses the Sirius satellite system. Dealing with WSI is far and away 1000x better experience than dealing with XM. When I call WSI for an issue (rare), I always get a live person, and always the SAME live person, and the kicker is I pay about the same per month than a similar XM subscription.

I use a MX20 MFD and the AV300 uses it as a display device. It's old and slow, and Garmin no longer supports the device. The screens are known to flake out, and so my only recourse when it goes bad is to find a replacement off of eBay or similar.

I'd probably consider upgrading to a GMX200, which is faster and supports more WX options, but Garmin, in their infinite wisdom, locks out the GMX200 from natively supporting the AV300 like the MX20 does. You have to purchase an unlock card from then to the tune of $3500 to allow the device to enable functionality I already have. Obviously I reject that on principal, so the money I would have spent on the GMX200 remains in my 100LL avgas fund, and probably ensures that any future upgrade will come from Avidyne or Aspen.

Richman
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Space Monkey
The "good" ol' days...
Replies
6
Views
4K
///AMG
///AMG
citrus
Bridging The Gap – Why We Need To Teach Pilots How To Use EFB
Replies
6
Views
3K
Ian_J
Ian_J
wdwatts
Captain Kila's State of the (Aviation) Union Address
7 8 9
Replies
175
Views
24K
Autothrust Blue
Autothrust Blue
derg
"The truth about the luxury of Qatar Airways"
3 4 5
Replies
91
Views
13K
Alanna
Alanna
N
Horizon interview
3 4 5
Replies
82
Views
26K
ASpilot2be
ASpilot2be
Back
Top