Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreement-6%

Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I see you've stopped stalking me on the reserve list. :)

Ha! As if there is any reserve work to stalk! Yeah, last time I commented, I was stalking everyone on the list just to see who was getting what. What, should I have something better to do? ;)
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Try it when in ATL and you are taxing to 26R and are stopped on the hill by Delta maintenance hangars.

True, you do have to rev up a bit to get going on that hill, but that it with one engine or two. Also, it seems to me you would need the same thrust, regardless - with the engines so close to the centerline, there's not much inefficiency from running SE. Honestly, I'd have to see the numbers to be convinced one way or another.

Wheels - your ledger explanation went way over my head! So, yes it sounds crazy, but I'll bow to superior knowledge. :D
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Ha! As if there is any reserve work to stalk! Yeah, last time I commented, I was stalking everyone on the list just to see who was getting what. What, should I have something better to do? ;)

Isn't that the truth. Looks like this will be my very first period of availability that I'm not called for anything.
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I said (and you ignored) that I'm not saying I disagree with you. You just come on really heavy.

Just like I'm sure there are a lot of college kids who have read a lot of books about politics, maybe volunteered some too. But I don't think I could listen to one stand on a soapbox and preach to me about how not voting for a republican would mean the country would be destroyed for more than about 30 seconds. Even though we're in agreement that everyone should vote republican :)

We agree on the principles being discussed, concessions are bad, xjet may or may not go into BK anyways, etc. But probably not on whether a horrible industry-wide chain reaction will come from this, or if it's the job of the xjet pilots to possibly take it in the bleep even worse by refusing any concessions no matter what so that the majority of regionals out there can continue to undercut xjet on work rules and pay.

That was my point.
Just like I'm sure there are a lot of college kids who have read a lot of books about politics, maybe volunteered some too. But I don't think I could listen to one stand on a soapbox and preach to me about how not voting for a republican would mean the country would be destroyed for more than about 30 seconds. Even though we're in agreement that everyone should vote republican.

Yeah, voting Republican has worked out well for the past 8 years, hasn't it??????
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I don't even necessarily disagree with you, but I don't know how much more self-righteous chest-thumping I can listen to from a brand new FO.

I'm new too...but jesus dude.


No kidding. I'm getting a permanent red mark on my forehead from all the facepalming I do when I read his posts

Just because someone is new does not mean they have not right to speak on what directly affects their life. Nothing self-righteous about any of it, and I agree fully.

If we only had more people like this with similar beliefs and a harder line maybe we would all be in a much better position right now as far as T&C's and pay goes. Because you won't gain a bit if you don't fight for it. Something the pilot group in the U.S has not been so good at. If anyone has been paying attention to what has been happening at Alitalia lately, we should take example after their pilot group.

========================================================

Passive pilots is one thing the one thing we as a group cannot afford to have. Do pilots in the U.S not think we are entitled to more?? Regional F/Os in other parts of the world make as much as some of the regional captains we have here. As far as flying goes and being a pilot, the U.S is the bar lowerer of this industry on this planet.

And I am a new F/O as well btw.... for who knows how much longer..
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Just because someone is new does not mean they have not right to speak on what directly affects their life. Nothing self-righteous about any of it, and I agree fully.

If we only had more people like this with similar beliefs and a harder line maybe we would all be in a much better position right now as far as T&C's and pay goes. Because you won't gain a bit if you don't fight for it. Something the pilot group in the U.S has not been so good at. If anyone has been paying attention to what has been happening at Alitalia lately, we should take example after their pilot group.

========================================================

Passive pilots is one thing the one thing we as a group cannot afford to have. Do pilots in the U.S not think we are entitled to more?? Regional F/Os in other parts of the world make as much as some of the regional captains we have here. As far as flying goes and being a pilot, the U.S is the bar lowerer of this industry on this planet.

And I am a new F/O as well btw.... for who knows how much longer..

I don't think the people from XJT are passive I think they are faced with losing their jobs. Its easy to spout off saying they shouldn't take concessions when it isn't your company that is about to close up shop. I think it is self righteous to tell people who work for a different company that are being faced with unemployment in this economy to burn the place down when you are sitting comfy with a company that for now is doing OK. Im not at XJT so the only opinion I have is do what you think is going to be the best for the you and the pilot group. Yes concessions are bad but so is losing your job. I want what is best for the industry as much as anyone else but keeping my job means that I can feed and shelter my family and that is always going to be a bit more important than another pilots QOL. Sorry guys its just human nature. And until you are faced with your company going bankrupt with our wonderful job market the way it is today don't be so quick to judge. Its not easy for a senior captain making 100K to just find something else because he/she stood up to management.

There is a time to stand up to management and there is a time to try to work with management. Knowing that difference is what makes a labor force strong. You can be as militant as you want when your walking to the unemployment line.
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I don't think the people from XJT are passive I think they are faced with losing their jobs. Its easy to spout off saying they shouldn't take concessions when it isn't your company that is about to close up shop. I think it is self righteous to tell people who work for a different company that are being faced with unemployment in this economy to burn the place down when you are sitting comfy with a company that for now is doing OK. Im not at XJT so the only opinion I have is do what you think is going to be the best for the you and the pilot group. Yes concessions are bad but so is losing your job. I want what is best for the industry as much as anyone else but keeping my job means that I can feed and shelter my family and that is always going to be a bit more important than another pilots QOL. Sorry guys its just human nature. And until you are faced with your company going bankrupt with our wonderful job market the way it is today don't be so quick to judge. Its not easy for a senior captain making 100K to just find something else because he/she stood up to management.

There is a time to stand up to management and there is a time to try to work with management. Knowing that difference is what makes a labor force strong. You can be as militant as you want when your walking to the unemployment line.

Just want to address a few things real quickly.

First, I'm not asking or telling anyone to burn the place down.

Second, we are all in this fight together. When one of us hits the street, we all feel it. This shouldn't even be debated, but clearly some want to say we are all opportunists just seeking to survive. Wrong, at least for me. I want each of us to have successful careers in a profession we each love and enjoy.

Third, don't forget we are all in this fight together. No matter who we fly for, we are fighting the same fight of protecting wages, benefits, and quality of life for the profession.

This has nothing to do with being militant, as much as I know that's the easy buzz word to toss around. It simply has to do with wanting to maintain a sense of solidarity with our aviation industry brothers and sisters. Maintaining a common ground on saying enough is enough. I've seen enough families watch their quality of life quickly evaporate from them due to poor management decisions. Not because they couldn't manage their own finances, but because their management teams couldn't manage the companies finances.

I've seen enough hard working middle class Americans watch their once promised pension plans disappear, from Eastern mechanics and pilots to Delta mechanics and pilots - amongst other industries of this country.

We use to recognize a certain American standard of living. Unfortunately, due to a number of factors, we have allowed ourselves to become "Okay" with seeing a reduction in our standard of living as everyday Americans. And for what? So that we won't be able to pay cash for a large percentage of our kids' college education? So that we will have to work to the day we die since we allowed our employers to continually erode our retirement benefit packages, and we continually allowed them to reduce our wages via concessionary wage cuts so now we are not able to send enough money to a savings account to put up for a rainy day?

At what point do those who say this one time is okay do they decide enough is enough? After the third of fourth concessionary pay cut? After the third or fourth attempt by the company to save costs by reducing labor cost? When the doors close for the last time, and we have nothing to show for it? When is the tree of personal wealth and independence eroded to such a point that it is merely now a stump due to management chopping it away over a period of two or three decades - and we have nothing to show for it.

Perhaps if I didn't have such life experiences my opinion on being willing to accept a pay cut would be a bit different, but thankfully I saw how my Eastern mechanic neighbor was treated, how my US Airways neighbor across the street has been treated, and how my Delta Pilot neighbor to the left have been treated. Add in the immediate impact of my old man watching his retirement program that he was promised when he was hired in 1989 by Delta simply evaporate. These experiences don't leave me with a warm and fuzzy for Airline management. They don't leave me with a high regard for what they call trust.

They don't tell you about the realities of having to provide for a family, maintaining shelter in these flashy AOPA Flight Training magazines or in ATP's Career Pilot Training brochures.

While I think all of us can agree we have our own personal responsibilities to maintain, it simply becomes harder and harder to maintain our own responsibilities when our managers are failing us. They have their piece of the pie, and yet they are able to always come towards us and ask for some of our pie? What happens when we don't have anything else to give back? Which reaffirms my question, when is enough enough? When will those who find this concession to be okay, when will they stand up and say No? When they have nothing else to give back?
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I´ll be brief being that I don´t have a lot of time, and as you can probably tell I´m typing on a spanish language keyboard.

#### the company.

I get my ass handed to me for over a year on reserve, get furloughed and THEN the company "finally" comes up with a TA with the union?

Get the #### outta here.

Me and my coworkers have been marginlized for a year and you want folks to come to the table and hear about how we´re all going to lose our jobs? Boys this is scare tactics 101, what with the company furloughing almost 350 and then saying in their next breath, "Hey guys we´re really sorry about furloughing 350, and even though we´re going to tell you it has nothing to do with what we´re about to say, if you don´t do what we´re telling you we´re going to furlough THE ENTIRE COMPANY!!! DID YOU SEE WHAT WE JUST DID?! WE WILL #### YOU AS HARD AS WE WANT! NOW BEND THE #### OVER!!!"

#### the company, vote no.
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

For pilot passiveness I was speaking about pilots in general, everywhere. From earlier posts it seems that some may be losing 6% in pay. The pay-scale would be restored after some time to where it is supposed to be, but why not offer that 6% concessions back to the group in the future? Regional airline pilots are grossly underpaid to start with, and I think any management team that asks for more concessions is out of their mind. When you make millions a year maybe a dollar here and there doesnt seem like much, but it does to the pilots who are barely breaking even with pay what its at now.

No I am not apart of the XJT group and they will vote for what they think is right. I am just posting on an internet forum. But I assure you that if I was apart of the group, there would be a big fat NO from me, unless that 3-6% loss, would be given back to me somehow in the future. Management everywhere needs to stop robbing employees of their pay anytime they need some extra cash. All it has been is concessions and concessions and more concessions from some time now. But when we ask for a raise, or something towards a better QOL it's nearly impossible to gain an inch.. even when things were going well... for that brief period of time.. but were supposed to give them a yard anytime they please, other wise its greedy pilots throwing the airline into bankruptcy.:rolleyes:

Yes, I am sure a senior captain at XJT would be less willing to vote no on this issue then a first year F/O.. that is obvious, as he would most likely not notice the small decrease in pay for a year as much as an F/O would.

Yes it is a tough market, yes the economy is slow right now. Management gets paid the big bucks to make things work at a time like this. Cutting employee wages is a brainless cheap and temporary fix, to a big problem.
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

First off best of luck to all the XJET guys.

2nd, the scary scenario in this situation would be if the company took concessions and went under anyway. Its up to the pilot group to figure out if management is really telling the truth about this concession "saving" the company.

Isn't that the truth. Looks like this will be my very first period of availability that I'm not called for anything.

Yeah I've glanced at the rosters for both planes and the 200 is waaayyyyy overstaffed. Right now Im set to hold a line at best or long call at worst on the 700 right outta school:nana2:
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Yeah I've glanced at the rosters for both planes and the 200 is waaayyyyy overstaffed. Right now Im set to hold a line at best or long call at worst on the 700 right outta school:nana2:

I love it...the Shiny Jet Basher is going to be flying one himself!! :buck::buck:
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

HOLD UP...Since when was I a shiny jet basher? Most people said I had SJS...

I wouldn't worry much about it. . .just knock the dirt off your shoulder.

Anyway - yeah we're well staffed on the -200. November and December will come soon enough, putting us back to work.

I'm looking forward to the winter, ice, low cigs, fog, etc. :)
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I wouldn't worry much about it. . .just knock the dirt off your shoulder.

Anyway - yeah we're well staffed on the -200. November and December will come soon enough, putting us back to work.

I'm looking forward to the winter, ice, low cigs, fog, etc. :)

Yeah, and snow coming down in ATL breaking all hell loose! I was still in new-hire training when that fiasco went down last winter. 5 hr wait for deicing:panic:
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Just the way it goes man. . .business as normal in the ATL.

;)

I was doing laps around the pattern that morning, lol. Was on the upwind leg of a touch and go when the snow finally started to drop. . .climbed to altitude, did a 180, and landed and into the ramp. Wasn't getting screwed.
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

If you guys don't want to listen to a new regional FO, then listen to a major FO who's been in this business for almost a decade and spent most of that time as a union rep, including at the national level.

Well, I know I'M impressed...


...you guys should just go ahead and get married already.
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I wouldn't worry much about it. . .just knock the dirt off your shoulder.

:)

Thanks Surreal...though I don't think Marcus had much dirt to knock off...he seemed to handle it alright for himself.

I swore you were always bashing shiny jets when you started flying the ATR...my bad if you weren't!
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

True, you do have to rev up a bit to get going on that hill, but that it with one engine or two. Also, it seems to me you would need the same thrust, regardless - with the engines so close to the centerline, there's not much inefficiency from running SE. Honestly, I'd have to see the numbers to be convinced one way or another.

Wheels - your ledger explanation went way over my head! So, yes it sounds crazy, but I'll bow to superior knowledge. :D

Or, you can use that hill to do a crossbleed start. You're getting towards the end of the line and the engine is already spooled up. That and when you're doing that you don't have to be the dweeb that announce that you're doing a crossbleed start in an RJ...so everybody better watch out!
 
Or, you can use that hill to do a crossbleed start. You're getting towards the end of the line and the engine is already spooled up. That and when you're doing that you don't have to be the dweeb that announce that you're doing a crossbleed start in an RJ...so everybody better watch out!

The maximum thrust produced by the engine on the EMB-145 is very close to the idle thrust output of a B-777 engine.

Now consider that the crossbleed start thrust required is nowhere near maximum thrust!
 
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Thanks Surreal...though I don't think Marcus had much dirt to knock off...he seemed to handle it alright for himself.

I swore you were always bashing shiny jets when you started flying the ATR...my bad if you weren't!

Na wasn't me. The turboprop is fun to fly and was a great experience, but the jet is just a complete upgrade in fun factor...at least to me!
 
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