Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreement-6%

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
6% paycut proposed. Of course, it still has to be voted on by the pilot group to see if it will take effect:

- 3% instantaneous pay reduction effective upon ratification

- Forfeiture of longetivity and annual cost of living pay raises for 1 year (until Sept 30, 2009). This equates to an additional 3% pay cut for most pilots.

-No changes to 401K, vacation, or other work rules.

- Letter promising not to seek additional concessions from the pilots if the company enters bankruptcy (yeah right).

- Snapbacks: 25% if 80 mil in annual profits are reached, 50% if 90 mil, 100% if 100 mil of profits are reached. 10% of pretax profits go to profit sharing, in addition, half of all profits beyond 30 mil go to profit sharing.

- Pay restored if ownership is changed, or maagement compnsation levels ncrease

This agreement will supposedly save the company $10,200,000 anually and, combined with concessionary packages from other work groups, allow Expressjet to "break even" on their new 7 year CPA with Continental.

In summary, 6% sliced off the payscale, and no realistic chance of ever getting it back ($30 mil pofit, yeah right) until another contract is negotiated. The 7 year CPA with CAL is "break even at best", so I fail to see how any of the profit sharing or snapbacks are even relevant. The MEC chairmen says bankruptcy is imminent if the TA is not approved, based on their analysts' assesment of XJT's financial condition. In bankruptcy CAL can void the Capcity purchase agreement with XJT, making liquidation a high probability.

No shortage of fear grenades being lobbed by both management and the union on this one. To top it off the company waited until today, the day 347 pilots lost their jobs, to reach a TA. Guess they didn't like how those 347 were going to vote.
 

Toonces

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

What a crock. 10 million a year is supposed to save the company. I say let the place burn before giving them a dime. Nice timing on the TA by the way.

**** CAL.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Nice scam. . .

Thanks guys. . .thanks a lot. Now here come the wave of consessionary requests from all of our respective managament teams.

:banghead:
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Nice scam. . .

Thanks guys. . .thanks a lot. Now here come the wave of consessionary requests from all of our respective managament teams.

:banghead:
I think xjet is probably in worse financial shape than many other regionals.

But the whole proposal can be simplified down to:

Immediate 2.83% paycut
1 year pay freeze

All benefits, health care costs, work rules, 401k, (i.e. everything else) remains untouched (well health care costs could go up 1.7%, which is about $2.70)

There was going to be a concession package, we've known that for months. If this is as bad as it gets then aren't we overacting a little bit?
 

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I think xjet is probably in worse financial shape than many other regionals.

But the whole proposal can be simplified down to:

Immediate 2.83% paycut
1 year pay freeze

All benefits, health care costs, work rules, 401k, (i.e. everything else) remains untouched (well health care costs could go up 1.7%, which is about $2.70)

There was going to be a concession package, we've known that for months. If this is as bad as it gets then aren't we overacting a little bit?
I have certainly not made up my mind yet since I am yet to see the proposal in writing but I think this is a sound assessment. I'm all for principal but I'm also against cutting off my nose to spite my face.
 

PaulR

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

6% paycut proposed. Of course, it still has to be voted on by the pilot group to see if it will take effect:

- 3% instantaneous pay reduction effective upon ratification
Not Correct

- Forfeiture of longetivity and annual cost of living pay raises for 1 year (until Sept 30, 2009). This equates to an additional 3% pay cut for most pilots.
Not Correct

-No changes to 401K, vacation, or other work rules.

- Letter promising not to seek additional concessions from the pilots if the company enters bankruptcy (yeah right).
Not 100% Correct

- Snapbacks: 25% if 80 mil in annual profits are reached, 50% if 90 mil, 100% if 100 mil of profits are reached. 10% of pretax profits go to profit sharing, in addition, half of all profits beyond 30 mil go to profit sharing.

- Pay restored if ownership is changed, or maagement compnsation levels ncrease

This agreement will supposedly save the company $10,200,000 anually and, combined with concessionary packages from other work groups, allow Expressjet to "break even" on their new 7 year CPA with Continental.

In summary, 6% sliced off the payscale, and no realistic chance of ever getting it back ($30 mil pofit, yeah right) until another contract is negotiated. The 7 year CPA with CAL is "break even at best", so I fail to see how any of the profit sharing or snapbacks are even relevant. The MEC chairmen says bankruptcy is imminent if the TA is not approved, based on their analysts' assesment of XJT's financial condition. In bankruptcy CAL can void the Capcity purchase agreement with XJT, making liquidation a high probability.
Not Correct

No shortage of fear grenades being lobbed by both management and the union on this one. To top it off the company waited until today, the day 347 pilots lost their jobs, to reach a TA. Guess they didn't like how those 347 were going to vote.
Please call your Union Rep or read the emails and information on the Union wesite to get the detailed info. While this forum is great in many way please do not form your opinion from what may not be reliable information.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Feel free to give us the correct information then. The things I have stated were taken straight from the conference call, right out of the mouth of dressler and stevens. I hope you're not calling me incorrect for saying 3 instead of 2.86%. I'll take rounded to the nearest integer for $2000, trebek :)
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Nice scam. . .

Thanks guys. . .thanks a lot. Now here come the wave of consessionary requests from all of our respective managament teams.

:banghead:
Wait until the results of our vote is in before you "thank" anybody.
 

PaulR

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Nice scam. . .

Thanks guys. . .thanks a lot. Now here come the wave of consessionary requests from all of our respective managament teams.

:banghead:
While its true that when one airline drastically undercuts another it creates great pressure within the industry to meet that new low. However, dont jump to conclusions. The XJT TA will still leave ExpressJet pilots at the top 1/3 of the industry over all, amont the best work rules, and even with the pay concession still at the top 1/3.

Wait until the actual document is published and explained before you form an opinion. While managments and labor have not always seen eye to eye it should not be implied that because the pilots at expressjet and their management are able to come to a resolution durring difficult times that either party is selling out. Its called working together, while no pilot ever wants to take a paycut, reality and ideaology do not always coenside.

I dont think the majority of pilots any any airline would be willing to lower the bar drastically. read the info as it comes out. A knee-jerk reaction is more dangerous to all of us [pilots] and should be avioded.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Are bonus' considered compensation, or just salary increases?
The conference call seemed to indicate that management's reciept of bonuses would trigger snapbacks, but I can't say for certain since the details are still vague.
 

PaulR

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Feel free to give us the correct information then. The things I have stated were taken straight from the conference call, right out of the mouth of dressler and stevens. I hope you're not calling me incorrect for saying 3 instead of 2.86%. I'll take rounded to the nearest integer for $2000, trebek :)
I am calling you incorrect for stating 3% when its 2.86% and other errors. Thats how small things snowball into big issues and when a busy pilot has limited time to research the TA they may, in error, follow a post they read online rather than pick up the actual document or call a Union Rep.

Dont take it personally, I am just stating that the post you made was not 100% correct and that pilots should do the analysis for themselves and ask the Union reps or a Financial advisor [if they dont want to ask a Rep] This is a career and I would hope that any information provided to my peers is 100% correct so they can be informed when they vote.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Wait until the results of our vote is in before you "thank" anybody.
Very true. My apologies.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that for a company to ask, or for a union that is suppose to represent the interests of their pilots to mutually agree to a pay cut considering the overall economic pain we as individuals living in this country are facing is simply laughable in my opinion.

I know I'm not alone, and I very well think I am in the minority, but I would be standing my ground on anything pay related. The company can find other ways to save 10 million dollars than taking it from labor. . .again. . .and again. . .and again.
 

BE19Pilot

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

History has shown over and over that union give-backs to the airlines haven't mitigated or prevented financial losses or bankruptcies. What needs to happen is a fundamental change in how the company operates, how it manages it's debt and equity. Business 101, but management uses labor as it's "fail-safe" for times where grandiose marketing/sales "adventures" go south. Granted we are living thru a very difficult spike in fuel costs, but this has also exposed the companies that were being run on a thread to begin with.
Operationally, Expressjet is perhaps one of the finest airlines out there. Professional crews, a good product and a loyal customer base. However, there isn't enough horsepower in the regional ranks to be partners in keeping the bar raised to the level where professional airline pilots deserve for it to be. I will be very interested to see how this plays out for our comrades in ExpressJet. What happens there is going to be the catalyst for a new round of tougher talking managers, mediators and corporate bankers in the next airline to negotiate a contract.
Finally, I hope that with this agreement that furloughs will be mitigated to the maximum extent possible, and a spirit of teamwork and looking out for one another will be the order of the day.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I find this very disappointing. XJT FOs are already woefully underpaid, and now they are expected to take a 6% hit? In the middle of an economic downturn with skyrocketing inflation? I think not. No XJT pilot should even consider this.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

XJT FOs are already woefully underpaid
Woefully underpaid compared to which regional? Or do you just mean pilots should be paid more in general?

Current FO pay rates:

2 - 33.48
3 - 35.57
4 - 37.94
5 - 39.07
6 - 40.25

The FO pay rates as of October 08 will be:

2 - 32.81
3 - 34.57
4 - 36.87
5 - 37.94
6 - 39.07

The new FO pay rates as of December 09 will be (with the 2.06% increase in October 09 and the normal annual December pay increase):

2 - 34.49
3 - 36.34
4 - 38.76
5 - 39.88
6 - 41.07
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

Compared to which regional? Or do you just mean pilots should be paid more in general?
I mean that regional FOs (and Captain, to a lesser degree) are woefully underpaid in general. Taking a step back should be a non-starter.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I mean that regional FOs (and Captain, to a lesser degree) are woefully underpaid in general. Taking a step back should be a non-starter.
The obvious counter argument is whether the company is going to go into BK if this doesn't pass? And the argument against that is if the pilots should care in any case? Or of course if they are going into BK no matter what?

The first and last questions I can't answer. The union says the accountants looked at the numbers and this is a legitimate request. I don't have any choice but to believe the union is telling us that in good faith.

On the middle question, we're talking about $94/m for FOs and $165/m for CAs in pay cuts (calculated from $40k and $70k annual salaries respectively) and skipping this year's normal COL pay increase. Is that amount of money worth rolling the dice on? I don't know. I don't know what xjet mgt may not have told the union, I don't know what CAL is planning, I don't know what oil will cost next year.

But is it the xjet pilots' responsibility to say no to any pay cut regardless of the consequences to stop pilots at CHQ or PCL (or any number of others who are doing the same job at a lower pay scale) from complaining online that XJT is ruining the industry? I'm not sure if that's really my top priority ;).

Although I'm furloughed and can't vote anyways.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

The company is just as liable to go into BK with or without pay concessions.

It's not the pay of your employees that drive a company into BK, it's a management team's inability to sufficiently manage a company, managing the assets, and managing the liability that drive a company in BK.

But of course. . .labor is the excuse, always has been, and always will until we stand up and say enough is enough.

To come to the resolution, on an individual level, that this is okay and that I don't mind being pushed around and asked (told) to take a concessionary pay cut, or else. . .is simply lunacy. You all, every last one of you, worked extremely hard to get to XJT. You all, every last one of you, worked extremely hard to provide a quality product to your customer. And this is how the company treats you? Then, to somehow come to the decision that this is okay on an individual level? This just baffles me. No wonder our management groups can push us each around, we don't have any damn conviction on how to be treated.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
Re: Expressjet & ALPA Reach Tentative Concessionary Agreemen

I don't even necessarily disagree with you, but I don't know how much more self-righteous chest-thumping I can listen to from a brand new FO.

I'm new too...but jesus dude.
 
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