Your FO is not wearing proper uniform...

[ryan1234]

"You checked your left aileron up first before you right one."

You mean you don't always do the right one first?!?!...You should go burn your certificate.

 

[Firebird2XC]

There is always a pro-standards function, whether it's formal or informal.

Obviously, at a large shop, there is a formal pro-standards system.

Sometimes at a small shop, such as my current employer, there is a formal pros-standards system.

In both cases there is an "informal" pro-standards. You and I both know guys that when their name is brought up, folks say positive things about. "hey, he's a great guy" for example. If you feel strongly enough, and there isn't a formal pro-standards, talking to a respected member of the line about your concern is a great way to address it.

I'm sure you already have a couple names in your mind at your organization that this applies to.

Interesting idea. Sort of seeking out an ombudsman, etc. I wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Blackhawk]

The worst captain I've ever flown with started by saying, "You're doing your control check wrong." I asked him why, and he said, "You checked your left aileron up first before you right one."

The guy turned out to be a micromanager, and I didn't do anything correctly for the entire 4 day trip in his eyes. Taking this same approach with the hat will do little more than cut a crew member off at the knees, making them uninterested in listening to what the skipper has to say, and more importantly, it will make the captain an ineffective leader because the folks he is leading won't have any interest in listening to what he has to say, because he's a giant bag.

If an FO takes umbrage with a captain reminding him/her that they need to bring their hat to work and becomes uniterested in helping the captain then the FO has some larger issues that need to be resolved if he is to continue in an aviation career. The cockpit is a two man crew and while the captain sets the tone the FO must be a good follower. Yes, there is a wrong way to deal with uniform issues ("Hey bud, if you can't wear the uniform right get off my airplane and get your application into Walmart"), and a right way ("I see you don't have a hat. Not the end of the world, but from now on bring it with you when you fly with me. It's part of the company procedure/FOM."). But if it is company policy it is within the rights of the captain to make the FO tow the line and the FO needs to go along with the captain. One of the first steps in being a good leader is learning to be a good follower.
Part of being a captain is conducting a crew brief and telling the FO and FAs what you expect of them. The biggest problem I had as an FO was not with the "by the book hard nosed" captains, but with those who tried to be so layed back that the cockpit would break down. Guys who would not even brief you when your trip was changed. "Umm... isn't Charlotte to the East?" "Yeah, but we're not going there now." Had an actual trip like that where the captain got the clearance while I was doing the walk around. I did not realize the trip was changed until enroute. Captains who would take off if the trip was cancelled... I actually sat on an aircraft for about 15 minutes waiting for a captain once who went home when the trip was cxled and never bothered telling us. Captains who were so "layed back" they refused to wear headsets. Nothing like a 15' prop spinning next to your head for 9 hours with no headset to induce fatigue.
Looking at the recent regional airline accidents I would say too much discipline is hardly a problem in the cockpit of many of their airplanes. Pinnacle 3701. Corporate Airline 5966. Comair 191. Colgan 3407. Many more that I can mention. Setting the standards in the cockpit does not mean the captain needs to be a jerk, but it does not mean that he needs to let the FO do as he/she pleases. Also, the FO can set the standard by doing what he/she was hired to do and what was agreed upon at the interview. Again, if an FO can't take a captain saying he should show up in the correct uniform as per company policy maybe the FO really does need to take his bottle home to mommy and find other work.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Nothing to add. But good post Blackhawk. I agree 100%

 

[pntbllr233]

Back in the day... I was going to say something to him. He was in my new hire class, and as a peer, I thought he made us all look bad. That's how we did it in the Army...

What happened to beating people with pillow cases full of soap bars if they made you look bad? That's how they do it on tv.

 

[Firebird2XC]

What happened to beating people with pillow cases full of soap bars if they made you look bad? That's how they do it on tv.

"Code Red" or vigilante justice is criminal and dealt with extremely harshly. That said, the newbs in basic training companies still pull it on occasion. Allegedly, the company next to mine had an individual that was totally Gomer Pyle, complete with some additional hygiene problems. They beat him down pretty good one night. Instead of motivating him to get with the program, it just broke him. I'm sure the psychic trauma of having your peers turn on you in a violent fashion probably crumbled what was already a fairly shaky foundation.

So yeah, don't do that.

 

[mshunter]

The worst captain I've ever flown with started by saying, "You're doing your control check wrong." I asked him why, and he said, "You checked your left aileron up first before you right one."

The guy turned out to be a micromanager, and I didn't do anything correctly for the entire 4 day trip in his eyes. Taking this same approach with the hat will do little more than cut a crew member off at the knees, making them uninterested in listening to what the skipper has to say, and more importantly, it will make the captain an ineffective leader because the folks he is leading won't have any interest in listening to what he has to say, because he's a giant bag.

I never said "hey you DB, put on your hat!" I said *elbow to the ribs, mom could be looking* "put your hat on man, before we both get busted! I don't want to get grounded too"

Kinda like this

If he doesn't want to put it on after that, well thats his/her problem, not mine, and I don't really care anymore.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I never said "hey you DB, put on your hat!" I said *elbow to the ribs, mom could be looking* "put your hat on man, before we both get busted! I don't want to get grounded too"

Kinda like this

If he doesn't want to put it on after that, well thats his/her problem, not mine, and I don't really care anymore.

I have to admit, having conversations like this outside the military seems kind of weird. Granted, considering how many airline pilots are former military, it doesn't surprise me.

I remember when the Army made everybody start wearing black berets. As a Sergeant, I had the chance to yell, "HEY! CHEF BOYARDEE! FIX YOUR *effin* BERET!"

Good times. Miss 'em sometimes, I do.

 

[granlistillo]

You don't have to be uniform police, but backing your buddy up wouldn't be improper. Such as approaching the airport (a high threat area, in terms of who might see you), a simple "hey john, don't let the CP see you without the hat, he's a stickler. I'll get my ass chewed too, please" And leave it at that.

Or another variation. Realistically half the battle is avoiding drama, and this is an easy one.

As far as another post on a pressed uniform and a shave, if I am on a short overnight, I shave and shower the night before and lay the next day's uniform out to unwrinkle it. But I ain't pressing. If I go right to sleep I will shave maybe shower again in the morning. Realistically with some days, you would have to shave in the middle of the day, and pullout a new uniform shirt for that openranks inspection look. Totally unrealistic... I would prefer bags to an airline uniform, but that said, I have the same grooming habits I had in the military, and the important thing is get the job done safely.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I have no problem telling an FO to go clean up if he/she shows up a disaster.

That being said, I don't think more than 2 of my FO's the last 2 months have actually recieved their full uniform yet, so as long as you look professional I'm pretty happy. We don't have to wear the hats, so it's a non issue.

I have seen a few funny variations of what guys have tried to get to look like a uniform

 

[Baronman]

At XJT we have a pretty loosely enforced uniform policy. IMO it's due in part to never seeing management. I can go months without seeing a chief pilot.

Being that the policy is loosely enforced, it's hard as a CA to say anything. If some guy has been outside of standard for months or years, who am I to be the one to caution him now about his non-compliance?

*Sunglasses hanging on the epaulets...wtf?

 

[LoadMasterC141]

My airline says hats are optional. I have noticed a trend in the personality of those who actually wear the hats. I also noticed they all react the same way when I tell them what we called them in the Air Force, and why they were subsequently dumped from that uniform ensemble: Bus Driver Hats.

 

[MikeD]

My airline says hats are optional. I have noticed a trend in the personality of those who actually wear the hats. I also noticed they all react the same way when I tell them what we called them in the Air Force, and why they were subsequently dumped from that uniform ensemble: Bus Driver Hats.

The authors of 35-10 are going to find you...........

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Wow I forgot about that one! "You're not in 35-10 Airmen"

 

[Guy]

Like so many things in life, it depends on the situation. There is no one size fits all answer.

However, I have noticed over the course of the years an interesting tendency for young pilots to not wear hats. It becomes a little amusing as they walk in the sun, dragging their gear, and holding their hat.

 

[saria19]

Best thing I can think of: cough and tap your hat. Most people catch on immediately, and you did do something without looking like a jerk or the uniform police.

 

[dasleben]

Best thing I can think of: cough and tap your hat. Most people catch on immediately, and you did do something without looking like a jerk or the uniform police.

Please don't do this... You WILL come off as a tool.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

, and why they were subsequently dumped from that uniform ensemble: Bus Driver Hats.

Yeah, well the term we had for the garrison caps wasn't much better. (I actually preferred the bus driver hat, it was harder for me to lose.)

 

[Bumblebee]

exactly...much easier as a captain to address this in an FO than the reverse, but I would suggest that an FO find a way to make the same suggestion. I had a crewmember who removed his tie in a lobby of the hotel after he removed it with the cockpit door open, and I reminded him that it should remain on in public. I told him in no uncertain terms that he was to be in full uniform while a part of my crew, and that he could go back to "being a slob"(not exact phraseology) when we were not flying together.

Doesn't this reflect your self worth?

There is a tactful manner to address many issues. If you company requires you to look a certain way, ie tie outside the cockpit. Then wear the tie outside the cockpit. Wear the damned hat, etc...
If the need to correct someone arises, look inside, find some integrity and correct it.

If you see something out of place and let it slide, you are just as useless as the person not wearing the stupid hat.