FO turns into Alexander Haig on rollout

I have never personally attacked you in that sense, I only attack Delta Airlines. That’s the difference.



It’s not my fault you take offense to my correcting the spelling of Airline or point out the uptight-ness that is Delta. ;)

Reread my post. It will bring clarity.
 
Wow that is sooooo strange. I wonder why you haven't run across this but @Cherokee_Cruiser has a dozen examples.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

It happens. I don’t have “dozens of examples”, but there are definitely some weirdos that you’ll encounter in the right seat too.

Most notable I had at SkyWest was an FO that immediately upon meeting up for our trip, went on and on about how much experience he had and all the airplanes he’s flown. As a former CFI, that was automatically a red flag for me. Anytime I did checkouts or BFRs, people that started out with how awesome they were totally sucked.

Anyway, so we’re taxiing out SE in MSP to R22 in the CRJ200. I ask him to start up the second engine, and it doesn’t light off. He starts freaking out over it, and I look up and see the ignition isn’t armed. I tell him that, and say ok let’s just motor it for 60 sec and try again. Totally NOT a big deal at all in my mind.

This dude just won’t let it go, and then says it’s all my fault as I should’ve looked up when I asked him to start it and checked the ignitions. Again I tell him this isn’t a big deal, but I’m out here taxiing and am assuming you know how to do your job.

Just on and one with this guy the whole trip. An excuse for everything and it’s always someone else’s fault.

I had a couple other guys that were very upset when I made any kind of critique like keep your hands on the thrust levers during landing, etc. Some people are just totally unable to accept criticism, and I’ve seen it with both mil and civilian backgrounds.
 
It happens. I don’t have “dozens of examples”, but there are definitely some weirdos that you’ll encounter in the right seat too.

Most notable I had at SkyWest was an FO that immediately upon meeting up for our trip, went on and on about how much experience he had and all the airplanes he’s flown. As a former CFI, that was automatically a red flag for me. Anytime I did checkouts or BFRs, people that started out with how awesome they were totally sucked.

Anyway, so we’re taxiing out SE in MSP to R22 in the CRJ200. I ask him to start up the second engine, and it doesn’t light off. He starts freaking out over it, and I look up and see the ignition isn’t armed. I tell him that, and say ok let’s just motor it for 60 sec and try again. Totally NOT a big deal at all in my mind.

This dude just won’t let it go, and then says it’s all my fault as I should’ve looked up when I asked him to start it and checked the ignitions. Again I tell him this isn’t a big deal, but I’m out here taxiing and am assuming you know how to do your job.

Just on and one with this guy the whole trip. An excuse for everything and it’s always someone else’s fault.

I had a couple other guys that were very upset when I made any kind of critique like keep your hands on the thrust levers during landing, etc. Some people are just totally unable to accept criticism, and I’ve seen it with both mil and civilian backgrounds.

Agreed on all, especially the last paragraph. Our shop makes a big deal about debrief after every leg and for CAs to mentor/professional development. I’m shocked how some people can’t take even nicely-worded and nicely toned feedback of what they did, could have done better.
 
Agreed on all, especially the last paragraph. Our shop makes a big deal about debrief after every leg and for CAs to mentor/professional development. I’m shocked how some people can’t take even nicely-worded and nicely toned feedback of what they did, could have done better.
Is there any discretion with that? I completely agree with newbies or any type of issues that occurred in flight that required a debrief. But if the flight was uneventful, and you’ve got a 20 year vet in the right seat, and is sharp by all accounts is a debrief mandatory?

I could see how some guys could take offense if they thought you were grasping at straws just to have a debrief.
 
Is there any discretion with that? I completely agree with newbies or any type of issues that occurred in flight that required a debrief. But if the flight was uneventful, and you’ve got a 20 year vet in the right seat, and is sharp by all accounts is a debrief mandatory?

I could see how some guys could take offense if they thought you were grasping at straws just to have a debrief.

It’s still required. PF starts with how did it go? If like you said all was good, I just say I got nothing, good job. Done.
 
Is there any discretion with that? I completely agree with newbies or any type of issues that occurred in flight that required a debrief. But if the flight was uneventful, and you’ve got a 20 year vet in the right seat, and is sharp by all accounts is a debrief mandatory?

I could see how some guys could take offense if they thought you were grasping at straws just to have a debrief.

I prompt it when I am PF and it’s usually brushed off as a joke. I’ve yet to see it prompted seriously from any captain.


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So am I correct that if the captain is PF, he’s looking for feedback from the FO?

That's my understanding. Yes. But the way to think about it is: It's more of a prompt for beginning a discussion and learning. I'd say from my perspective it's an experiment that isn't going well. The primary reason is that there is no training to go along with the new concept.
 
That's my understanding. Yes. But the way to think about it is: It's more of a prompt for beginning a discussion and learning. I'd say from my perspective it's an experiment that isn't going well. The primary reason is that there is no training to go along with the new concept.

Man, that would be weird where I work?

"How'd I do?"

"Wait, what? I'm about to bounce outta here and get a Jersey Mikes. Uhh, fine! I mean you're going to get a 'red ball' on the Pulse App because you fly like a maniac and never learned what stabilized approach criteria is, but fine" :)
 
Man, that would be weird where I work?

"How'd I do?"

"Wait, what? I'm about to bounce outta here and get a Jersey Mikes. Uhh, fine! I mean you're going to get a 'red ball' on the Pulse App because you fly like a maniac and never learned what stabilized approach criteria is, but fine" :)

If anything it shows how out of touch the Eskimo checking department oh I mean training department is. With the realities of life on the line, our schedules and how hectic it can be swapping airplanes twice in 4 legs with late arrival aircraft and a line of mouth breathers blocking the entry door I doubt anyone does it. But I try.
 
We swap jets so often it's almost a joke. That's probably most of our delays because the IB flight is delayed, the gate agents say 'the pilots just landed, they'll be over in 5 minutes, now boarding zone…" Hell no, I'm getting a sandwich and the line is long!

They'll send the 'snack van' to take us to the next gate sometimes, but I generally ditch it, grab some food and walk. It builds chill time during IROPS and I don't like to hop in a jet rushed while trying to solve someone else's operational disaster.
 
If anything it shows how out of touch the Eskimo checking department oh I mean training department is. With the realities of life on the line, our schedules and how hectic it can be swapping airplanes twice in 4 legs with late arrival aircraft and a line of mouth breathers blocking the entry door I doubt anyone does it. But I try.

Ready Safe Go. I used to care, but as a CA I realize the plane will go only when I get there. The FO too.

The job requires the debrief. And this year for CQ, there’s the Professional Development Module. PowerPoint slides that involve discussion.

Honestly, until you fly as CA I don’t think your assessment is fair. I’ve seen times where a discussion is warranted. Many other times, there’s no need. But still starts with “how’d that go?”


I work at the virtual airline (of course) but the training is top notch. They do a great job for the 737. Zero complaints going through. In fact the biggest complain is “it’s too long!” And I’m totally okay with that. I’ll take all the training they want to give.
 
I come from a very debrief heavy land. Like probably on the order of a 2:1 ratio (conservative estimate) of debrief time to flight time on most events. That doesn’t include the one hour brief prior to getting dressed up.

Point being that I have never, so far, had a problem with a quick how-we-doin session when we wouldn’t physically be able to exit the plane anyway. I cant think of an example where it has been more than one quick summary of a better choice we could have made, or a “you have to actually pull back on the control column at some point when you are landing”. But seriously, 99% of the time it is a question that i (or they) will answer with “i think it went pretty well” - as I stroke out trying to control the urge of my former self to laundry list every small error that i can recall being made in the last 2-3 hrs, and turn it into a teaching/learning moment (obviously with me being the student once again) :)
 
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Ready Safe Go. I used to care, but as a CA I realize the plane will go only when I get there. The FO too.

The job requires the debrief. And this year for CQ, there’s the Professional Development Module. PowerPoint slides that involve discussion.

Honestly, until you fly as CA I don’t think your assessment is fair. I’ve seen times where a discussion is warranted. Many other times, there’s no need. But still starts with “how’d that go?”


I work at the virtual airline (of course) but the training is top notch. They do a great job for the 737. Zero complaints going through. In fact the biggest complain is “it’s too long!” And I’m totally okay with that. I’ll take all the training they want to give.

So you're saying that you do it when you're captain. I'm saying I try and do it when I'm pilot flying but it's not particularly well received. So we are both trying.

I just don't think many others are based on what I'm seeing on the line. PowerPoint be dammed. That's not real training. It's just checking a box. Few I've worked with are participating.
 
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