Your FO is not wearing proper uniform...

[saxman]

Saw this question on an interview gouge and wondered what some others thought.

You're the captain and you see your FO walking around with his hat on his bag. Your airline requires pilots to wear the hat in public. What would you say to him if anything?

If this actually happened to me, I wouldn't say anything. My job as a Captain is not to be the uniform police, but to set a good example by following SOP's and standards at my company. Obviously if it comes to safety of flight or security, then I might say something. But not wearing a hat, does not effect the safety of flight.

Now what would say to this in an interview? What do they want to hear? Do they want honesty or someone who will follow company SOP's?

 

[MikeD]

You don't have to be uniform police, but backing your buddy up wouldn't be improper. Such as approaching the airport (a high threat area, in terms of who might see you), a simple "hey john, don't let the CP see you without the hat, he's a stickler." And leave it at that.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Fight to the death.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Fight to the death.

Cage match.

 

[derg]

Probably depends on how the FOM is written.

Captains shouldn't be expected to be the uniform police at all, but technically speaking if the FOM invokes the captain to ensure his fellow crewmember is wearing the proper uniform and the chief pilot presses the issue, it's a different story.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Saw this question on an interview gouge and wondered what some others thought.

You're the captain and you see your FO walking around with his hat on his bag. Your airline requires pilots to wear the hat in public. What would you say to him if anything?

If this actually happened to me, I wouldn't say anything. My job as a Captain is not to be the uniform police, but to set a good example by following SOP's and standards at my company. Obviously if it comes to safety of flight or security, then I might say something. But not wearing a hat, does not effect the safety of flight.

Now what would say to this in an interview? What do they want to hear? Do they want honesty or someone who will follow company SOP's?

Is he wearing a dress?

Honestly, either way I'd shiv him right there in public.

 

[Phantom017]

set a good example by following SOP's and standards at my company.

You just said it yourself... set an example by following SOP... if its SOP to wear the cover then I'd give a friendly reminder like what has been written here.

 

[Firebird2XC]

This is an interesting question.

I've been on both sides of this in a previous life- an "on the spot correction" was all too proper in the military. I think that's the crux of this issue here- assume it's your position per the FOM to correct another crew member. We're obviously not talking about the military world, though, and tact counts.

How would we all best address it? I think this is an excellent leader development question- JC is chock full of seasoned and up-and-coming leaders. Somebody educate me.

 

[ryan1234]

Report the incident to the FAA immediately



No... really... if that's the worst problem... well... things are pretty good.

 

[MikeD]

This is an interesting question.

I've been on both sides of this in a previous life- an "on the spot correction" was all too proper in the military. I think that's the crux of this issue here- assume it's your position per the FOM to correct another crew member. We're obviously not talking about the military world, though, and tact counts.

How would we all best address it? I think this is an excellent leader development question- JC is chock full of seasoned and up-and-coming leaders. Somebody educate me.

As I said before, a friendly reminder in a "cover your buddy's back" sort of way. If he doesnt want to listen, then later gets caught or busted by his own doing, then you tried.

 

[Firebird2XC]

As I said before, a friendly reminder in a "cover your buddy's back" sort of way. If he doesnt want to listen, then later gets caught or busted by his own doing, then you tried.

Agreed- that's a good method. A lot of Captains aren't too keen to weigh in with the 'supervisor' card these days. What if they had to do that, though?

I used to know an FO that showed up every day unshaven, with a wrinkled shirt and bedhead. Same basic idea- proper uniform.. but how would you address that?

 

[MikeD]

Agreed- that's a good method. A lot of Captains aren't too keen to weigh in with the 'supervisor' card these days. What if they had to do that, though?

I used to know an FO that showed up every day unshaven, with a wrinkled shirt and bedhead. Same basic idea- proper uniform.. but how would you address that?

A tough one, since you obviously want to present a good image to the public as well as just be professional anyways. I mean, the pilot hired onto the company knowing the uniform and appearance policies, so theres no excuse for not following them even if some of them may be dumb or impractical, such as a hat. On the flip side of the coin, in a regional, you may get some guys who say "they don't pay me enough to care or do anything extra". Flawed logic yes, but I could see that too.

 

[Nark]

Doesn't this reflect your self worth?

There is a tactful manner to address many issues. If you company requires you to look a certain way, ie tie outside the cockpit. Then wear the tie outside the cockpit. Wear the damned hat, etc...
If the need to correct someone arises, look inside, find some integrity and correct it.

If you see something out of place and let it slide, you are just as useless as the person not wearing the stupid hat.

 

[Polar742]

I used to know an FO that showed up every day unshaven, with a wrinkled shirt and bedhead. Same basic idea- proper uniform.. but how would you address that?

That's pro-standards.

As a line CA, you can tap the rudder, but how much? Really for minor stuff, if you set an example as a great CA, wear your uniform correctly and what not some will choose to do the same, some won't.

Kind of like discussions on here. People put forth ideas on a topic. Some agree, some don't.

 

[Firebird2XC]

That's pro-standards.

As a line CA, you can tap the rudder, but how much? Really for minor stuff, if you set an example as a great CA, wear your uniform correctly and what not some will choose to do the same, some won't.

Kind of like discussions on here. People put forth ideas on a topic. Some agree, some don't.

True enough. I look forward in time and know I'll be a Captain someday, and I wonder how my leadership training and personal methods will weigh in then.
Back in the day, when I knew that particular FO, I was going to say something to him. He was in my new hire class, and as a peer, I thought he made us all look bad. That's how we did it in the Army, and it carried over. My Captain told me to leave it be, and to let his Captain correct him. He told me it wasn't my place and I lacked the authority.

Thoughts on that?

 

[Polar742]

True enough. I look forward in time and know I'll be a Captain someday, and I wonder how my leadership training and personal methods will weigh in then.
Back in the day, when I knew that particular FO, I was going to say something to him. He was in my new hire class, and as a peer, I thought he made us all look bad. That's how we did it in the Army, and it carried over. My Captain told me to leave it be, and to let his Captain correct him. He told me it wasn't my place and I lacked the authority.

Thoughts on that?

I agree with your CA that suggested you let it be. BeAAgle is a big airline, and there are about umpteen bazillion pilots. When you have such a large organization and you fly with such a broad number of folks, things are different than a small shop.

At the small shop, you know everyone, whether it's actually knowing them, a reputation or even just a name.

As a company grows, or if it is a very large company, you are nothing more nor less than the guy in the seat. You are a qualified FO to the Captain. In the odd chance the CA you are flying with just flew with this guy, and knows that you two were in the same class, I could see a "did you know him? man what a slob. Before Start check."

For example, at the last shop, when I'd read the hat police memos from the top offices to the checkpilots, all I ever did was give a "Hey, they're really getting wound up about hats this month. If you're not going to wear it, leave it in the car. If you get gigged, tell them you spilled stuff on it and it was at the cleaners." (I really shouldn't tell people how to play the game, but whatever). It's really not worth throwing darts about a hat. If someone is pigpen enough, they will get noticed.

As a CA, as I found out thought more error than trial, if you do your stuff the right way, others may or may not take note. However, you can only do so much.

If you think it's tough conforming to a CA, wait until you have to conform to FOs.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Chief Pilot to Polar: "Where is your hat?"

Polar: "I gave it to a stripper."

 

[jynxyjoe]

Chief Pilot to Polar: "Where is your hat?"

Polar: "I gave it to a stripper."

The last time I saw my hat, my 5 year old niece was wearing it while running around the house. I hope the dog didn't eat it.

 

[O&M]

Doesn't this reflect your self worth?

There is a tactful manner to address many issues. If you company requires you to look a certain way, ie tie outside the cockpit. Then wear the tie outside the cockpit. Wear the damned hat, etc...
If the need to correct someone arises, look inside, find some integrity and correct it.

If you see something out of place and let it slide, you are just as useless as the person not wearing the stupid hat.

I tend to agree. There's more to being Captain than being the pilot-in-command, sitting in the left seat, and logging PIC time. You are the Commander; in charge of the aircraft and crew until such time as you have been relieved or your trip/duty period has ended. As such you are the company's on-site supervisor, and are expected to manage your team to safely and efficiently accomplish the mission. That's the reason you are paid a lot more than the FO.

The hat is not that big a deal in an of itself, but as Commander, if you let the little things slide, it gets harder to assert your authority when the big things come up.

The purpose of this interview question is find out what kind of Commander/Supervisor you will be. They want to know that you will 1) enforce company policy, and 2) do so while being a liked and respected member of the team.

Now, what's your answer to the question?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Agreed- that's a good method. A lot of Captains aren't too keen to weigh in with the 'supervisor' card these days. What if they had to do that, though?

I used to know an FO that showed up every day unshaven, with a wrinkled shirt and bedhead. Same basic idea- proper uniform.. but how would you address that?

Since "professional image" is written into a few FOMs...failure to wear the uniform is, as written, grounds for removal from flight status, and the Captain is responsible for the crew's appearance. Am I likely to tell someone that they can't do their job until they get shaven? Probably not, but if it's a pattern of behavior there are going to be words. As a Captain I would worry far more about matters of flight safety, but wouldn't hesitate to push on the rudder a bit. Might save the FO trouble with management down the road.

The biggest thing I think a Captain can do is set a good example. Fly the airplane well, wear the uniform, follow the SOP, and be a good leader. Nobody wants to fly with Major Frank Burns but as good a surgeon as Hawkeye is, showing up rumpled and wrinkled doesn't exude the sort of confidence folks in back deserve. Somewhere in between...

Regarding the hat - I'll mention something discreetly about putting your hat on, in the form of "the Chief Pilot is around here somewhere." Or maybe "Coat, no hat, is a dorky look" depending on the situation.