Thoughts and opinions on career change pilots?

SteveC

SteveC

"Laconic"
Staff member
As a mid-life career changer, some recent comments have me curious about the outside view of pilots that have switched over. Being on the inside of that group, I don’t have the perspective that y’all might have.


“…The aviation industry would be MUCH better with out the second career idiots coming over and talking about how they never have to work a day in their life nonsense.”

“…I've seen second career types come through aviation plenty of times and the only thing positive about them is that they retire quickly and go away. They are second as the worst person to work with only to trust funders.”
 
There are lots of fantastic career changers in the industry and I wouldn’t paint them with a broad brush. But I will say the percentage of pilots who are more interested in making PAs and never miss a chance to wear their uniform somewhere is much higher with the career change crowd. They seem to be more interested in playing airline pilot instead of honing their craft to be the best they can.

Again, this is not all career changers or even a majority of them.
 
Not all "career changers" should be lumped into the same basket.

The pilots who started out as car mechanics, accountants, engineers, etc who managed to do their flight training on the side, while working full time and sometimes raising a family, are some of the best pilots I've flown with. They're humble, hardworking, and all-in on an aviation career. They understand struggle, and they're eternally grateful and aware of all the opportunities they've been given (and capitalized on).

All of the problems I've had with "career changers" have been with older pilots who are basically treating airline flying as a hobby job. These types of people were usually very successful in business, law, finance, or whatever and manage to retire from their "real" career in their 50s with a substantial nest egg saved up. They've always wanted to be an airline pilot, maybe they got their PPL 15 years ago, but after retirement they go to ATP and start the airline track to see how far they can get before they turn 65. They are generally difficult to work with as FOs because they are extreme Type A personalities that have been used to bossing people around for decades, and over their careers being an extreme Type A "alpha dog" has advanced their career. They aren't always willing to accept that decades of success and experience in the boardroom doesn't always translate direct to aviation. And yes, as @Screaming_Emu said, most of them seem concerned with getting to a widebody as soon as possible so that they can tell everybody how they're an international widebody pilot and take pictures.

I should also say that the former group I've described, the hard workers, is a MUCH larger group than the latter.
 
SteveC said:
As a mid-life career changer, some recent comments have me curious about the outside view of pilots that have switched over. Being on the inside of that group, I don’t have the perspective that y’all might have.


“…The aviation industry would be MUCH better with out the second career idiots coming over and talking about how they never have to work a day in their life nonsense.”

“…I've seen second career types come through aviation plenty of times and the only thing positive about them is that they retire quickly and go away. They are second as the worst person to work with only to trust funders.”
Click to expand...
Please tell me you don't put any stock into the garbage that guy spews. The only way he knows how to deal with anyone with an opinion that differs from his very narrow views is to try and make personal attacks. He's proven this over and over again.
 
adk said:
Not all "career changers" should be lumped into the same basket.

The pilots who started out as car mechanics, accountants, engineers, etc who managed to do their flight training on the side, while working full time and sometimes raising a family, are some of the best pilots I've flown with. They're humble, hardworking, and all-in on an aviation career. They understand struggle, and they're eternally grateful and aware of all the opportunities they've been given (and capitalized on).

All of the problems I've had with "career changers" have been with older pilots who are basically treating airline flying as a hobby job. These types of people were usually very successful in business, law, finance, or whatever and manage to retire from their "real" career in their 50s with a substantial nest egg saved up. They've always wanted to be an airline pilot, maybe they got their PPL 15 years ago, but after retirement they go to ATP and start the airline track to see how far they can get before they turn 65. They are generally difficult to work with as FOs because they are extreme Type A personalities that have been used to bossing people around for decades, and over their careers being an extreme Type A "alpha dog" has advanced their career. They aren't always willing to accept that decades of success and experience in the boardroom doesn't always translate direct to aviation. And yes, as @Screaming_Emu said, most of them seem concerned with getting to a widebody as soon as possible so that they can tell everybody how they're an international widebody pilot and take pictures.

I should also say that the former group I've described, the hard workers, is a MUCH larger group than the latter.
Click to expand...
This has been exactly my experience as well, with very few of the latter out in the wild.
 
SteveC said:
As a mid-life career changer, some recent comments have me curious about the outside view of pilots that have switched over. Being on the inside of that group, I don’t have the perspective that y’all might have.


“…The aviation industry would be MUCH better with out the second career idiots coming over and talking about how they never have to work a day in their life nonsense.”

“…I've seen second career types come through aviation plenty of times and the only thing positive about them is that they retire quickly and go away. They are second as the worst person to work with only to trust funders.”
Click to expand...
Exceedingly positive from my perspective. But, of course, by the time I have exposure to them, there’s been some ‘filtering’.

The real pains in the rump are the influencer-types. No, no one asked about your skin regimen, how you eat healthy, what kind of protein shakes you suggest, “ooh, new epaulets, why don’t you take a photo when they’ve actually seen the sunlight” and I’m sorry, but most of the worlds ‘best/youngest/shortest/tallest/fastest’ (whatever) has already been done, focus less on how cool you think you are, stop avoiding reserve (because you over bid) and go work.
 
Hmm, I didn’t even know this was a thing. I guess maybe at the regional level there might have been some “just killing time” types, but I do not really care. As long as they show up on time and say the right words at the right time in the various incantations of our dark arts I don’t really care. At the major/legacy level I’d assume most of that is, as Doug said, filtered out.
 
I don’t have a useful perspective from the airline side, but in my former life of 135 pirate the career changer’s definitely struggled more so than young blood.

Also anecdotally, guys who cared more about their real estate portfolio than learning to fly a stable approach weren’t awesome to work with.
 
poser765 said:
Hmm, I didn’t even know this was a thing. I guess maybe at the regional level there might have been some “just killing time” types, but I do not really care. As long as they show up on time and say the right words at the right time in the various incantations of our dark arts I don’t really care. At the major/legacy level I’d assume most of that is, as Doug said, filtered out.
Click to expand...

My regional recruiter friends have some eye popping stories, but not from career changers.

One got accosted by a parent who assumed that once he got out of flight school and dipped their toes in the cool waters of the regional business, they’d be 777 captains by now. It’s like the industry moderating hiring to more normal levels have ruined this 23 year olds life forever and (regional) will rue the day for breaking poor Skylar’s heart.
 
Roger Roger said:
I don’t have a useful perspective from the airline side, but in my former life of 135 pirate the career changer’s definitely struggled more so than young blood.

Also anecdotally, guys who cared more about their real estate portfolio than learning to fly a stable approach weren’t awesome to work with.
Click to expand...

I did have a OE pilot keep pressing ‘pause’ on me during my briefing a few years ago to talk to his real estate agent. At which I told him that if I saw or heard his phone again In the aircraft, I would suspend OE so he could finish whatever was more important and he could talk to the Chief Standards Captain when he was ready to continue training. :)
 
derg said:
Exceedingly positive from my perspective. But, of course, by the time I have exposure to them, there’s been some ‘filtering’.

The real pains in the rump are the influencer-types. No, no one asked about your skin regimen, how you eat healthy, what kind of protein shakes you suggest, “ooh, new epaulets, why don’t you take a photo when they’ve actually seen the sunlight” and I’m sorry, but most of the worlds ‘best/youngest/shortest/tallest/fastest’ (whatever) has already been done, focus less on how cool you think you are, stop avoiding reserve (because you over bid) and go work.
Click to expand...
In this house the only influencer we stan is chataquanaut
 
derg said:
I did have a OE pilot keep pressing ‘pause’ on me during my briefing a few years ago to talk to his real estate agent. At which I told him that if I saw or heard his phone again In the aircraft, I would suspend OE so he could finish whatever was more important and he could talk to the Chief Standards Captain when he was ready to continue training. :)
Click to expand...
from my perspective, two contrasting things are true.

1. The learning curve in this job is steep enough that people who go out of their way to make it harder for themselves, really set themselves up for a bad time.

2. The job is easy enough, that why make it more difficult for yourself?
 
SteveC said:
As a mid-life career changer, some recent comments have me curious about the outside view of pilots that have switched over. Being on the inside of that group, I don’t have the perspective that y’all might have.


“…The aviation industry would be MUCH better with out the second career idiots coming over and talking about how they never have to work a day in their life nonsense.”

“…I've seen second career types come through aviation plenty of times and the only thing positive about them is that they retire quickly and go away. They are second as the worst person to work with only to trust funders.”
Click to expand...
One of the best times I’ve had flying was with someone had made the change mid career, if it can be called that. Guy flew fighters in the early 90’s, went into law and decided to get back into flying before he hit the retirement age. This was a few years ago at 9E. He was in his late 50’s and one of the most humble guys I flew with.

The ones who could be a headache were the kids who got pressured into flying by their mainline parent. A lot of them wanted to be anywhere else other than an airplane. I’d imagine a few of them are at (insert) mainline leaving a trail of destruction.
 
derg said:
Exceedingly positive from my perspective. But, of course, by the time I have exposure to them, there’s been some ‘filtering’.

The real pains in the rump are the influencer-types. No, no one asked about your skin regimen, how you eat healthy, what kind of protein shakes you suggest, “ooh, new epaulets, why don’t you take a photo when they’ve actually seen the sunlight” and I’m sorry, but most of the worlds ‘best/youngest/shortest/tallest/fastest’ (whatever) has already been done, focus less on how cool you think you are, stop avoiding reserve (because you over bid) and go work.
Click to expand...

“you wanna see how well my boner pills work?”

I’ve flown with a few guys who are influencer ish, but they’ve been awesome. They’ve been more the kind I like who love showing the cool stuff we get to see and less about filming themselves.

I also flew with the guy who does the 74Gear channel on YouTube. He couldn’t have been more professional and doesn’t bring it up unless someone asks. Great dude.
 
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