Should Flight Training be an Enjoyable Experience?

[RogerMurdock]

I know this might be a silly question, but I’d like to gather responses from both the inexperienced as well as the very experienced pilots on this board.

A little bit about myself:

As I’m sure many of you are, I love aviation and always find myself looking towards the sky when I hear an overflying airplane. I began flying when I was 14 and did my solo on my 16th birthday, and license on the 17th. From there I went to college and consequently ran out of time and money to continue to fly, and decided to pursue “money” and get a “real job” as an alternative. Well after multiple years of working in a very unsatisfying field I have come to realize that aviation has always been my passion and where I really see myself.

So as a novice and still a baby in the field I thought the airlines were the only route for the wannabe aviation enthusiast to make a career out of. As I started to become more aware of what the field entailed, with long hours, bad pay, rocky family life, and some claiming unsatisfying flying (i.e. the bus driver mentality), I started to look towards other avenues to incorporate flying as a job.

A buddy of mine recommended helicopters, which at this point didn’t even cross my mind as I thought the field was dominated strictly by military pilots. After doing a little research: the schedule, rewarding flying, pay, and overall “coolness” of helicopters seemed to outweigh the fixed wing counterparts. The 7 on 7 off schedule seemed fantastic to incorporate my desire to travel, and the ability to pick a base and call it home seemed fantastic (referring to EMS). With salaries starting at 50-60K, I felt that it would be a livable solution to potentially avoid the hardships of fixed wing.

Fast forward to today:

I am enrolled in a professional pilot program for helicopters and am at a loss as to whether I chose correctly. I am through my private license, but every day after training I feel like I’ve gone through 12 rounds with Tyson and put away wet. As a young man flying airplanes, I felt completely at home and never out of place even in the worst of situations (sometimes induced by myself). With helicopters I have this persistent knot in my stomach and a constant feeling of uneasiness. The helicopters are Robinsons and Schweizers, so not exactly the most stable or comfortable machines, however if I am feeling out of place now, how will I feel when I’m approaching a dark field on a gusty night with NVG and everyone relying on me?

While I’m getting a lot of praise from the instructors as being somewhat gifted with flying helicopters (fast learner I suppose), I am constantly white knuckling the controls, be it from a flock of birds whizzing by, gusts of wind, light turbulence, or a magneto slightly hiccupping sending a vibration through the controls…”OH GOD THIS IS IT, oh wait we’re fine”. I never felt this way with airplanes, and now I’m hoping for rainy days just so I don’t have to fly and can relax and breathe.

There have been times when a strong gust of wind with accompanying turbulence has hit the helicopter causing it to forcibly roll hard left then right and I see my life flashing before my eyes with Frank Robinson’s voice describing the dangers of low g maneuvers and mast bumping running through my head. With planes, I could get slammed around severely and not even break a sweat. With the looming 1 second until certain death with an engine failure and decaying rotor RPM, I’m not sure how I’d react if that did happen or if a bird blasted through the tail rotor leaving things in complete instant disarray.

I don’t want to be a quitter or a softy, but at this point I don’t know where this leaves me. Perhaps this is a grass is always greener mentality, but I feel the lifestyle of a helicopter pilot FAR outweighs that of an airplane pilot, but I believe that I am actually destined/comfortable/good at flying airplanes.

So I’d like to hear what everyone has experienced and felt like during their training and their future job prospects.

Have you ever felt like giving up? Did you enjoy it, or were you constantly looking towards the future to get passed it?

Is fixed wing what you expected? Are you satisfied?

Any helicopter pilots sympathize with what I feel? Am I being a big baby?

So let’s talk about this!

As a side note, I know I am in no place to do this, but I’m also questioning the maintenance of the helicopters and the underlying motives of the business. It’s more than likely induced by my hesitation and cautiousness, but that’s another reason that has my nerves are elevated.

Family is also the most important thing in my life (no surprise), so the schedule of helicopters and beauty to have the option to live back at “home”, seems like one of the more dominating aspects. Working for someone like Netjets (with the 7/7), would be fantastic, but know the time horizon for that will be 15 years or more, and is an extremely sought after job. Perhaps there are other alternatives?

 

[mshunter]

I feel like giving up daily. Then I think about why, and it's just because I beat myself up a lot #1, and #2, life has served me a crap sandwich over the last two years. What keeps me going is realizing that my former career made me.much more miserable than this one, #1, and #2, I am going to do this just to show people who said I couldn't, that I can, and will be successful at it.


There is a light at the end of the tunnel. It may seem dim, but it's there. And the tunnel is full of rocks and ditches you can't see. Sometimes those ditches are so deep and rocks so big, you have to feel your way out of them and over them. When you get out of that ditch, or over the rock, take another look at that light down there. Each time it seems brighter and closer.

 

[derg]

Have you ever felt like giving up?

For sure. Glad I didn't though.

Did you enjoy it, or were you constantly looking towards the future to get passed it?

Both. I enjoyed parts, other parts particular instructors made it a drag. Looking back, the problem was actually me.

Is fixed wing what you expected? Are you satisfied?

Pretty much and yes.

Any helicopter pilots sympathize with what I feel? Am I being a big baby?

Three guys to talk to (off the top of my head, sorry in advance if I miss anyone)

staplegun - Navy helo to airline
Ian J - Army helo to fixed freight back to Army helo
X-Forces - Army helo to airline

 

[z987k]

I hate to break this to you, but if you think you're going to fly Helo EMS, you'll be waiting a good while for that to. Almost all of the helo guy's that I work with have 10 years or more experience. CAMTS requires 1200 hours, 1000 pic, 100 unaided, 100 aided, 500 turbine absolute minimum for helo guys. I doubt anyone will hire someone at the minimums, they certainly wont for the fixed wing side. I also doubt you're going to build that time overnight. You'll probably have at least a few jobs in between flight training and being not only qualified but competitive. Those jobs will probably require you to move a few times to. Probably won't pay all that much either.

 

[Ian_J]

How many hours do you have in helicopters now?

 

[cezzna]

Fixed wing is a better bet. Your timing would be good going back to fixed wing now. If you can stomach a regional life for awhile in preparation for better things you can make it.

There are good corporate jobs out there too. I am on my 14'th year with the same company and flew 200 hours last year.

 

[skypilot6]

I cant tell you how many times I felt like giving up. There were several times during my Private and Instrument where I didnt fly for a few months. I knew I wanted to fly just like you and kept at it. There were good times and bad. But eventually it all paid off. I have done things I never ever thought I would do because of Aviation. I cant picture myself doing anything else. I now fly corporate/charter and I am having the time of my life.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Helicopters scare the poop out of me, but some of that is probably ignorance on my part.

People die in airplanes, helicopters, or on the freeways. (Or even peacefully in their beds.)

I'd say it's perfectly normal to have a time when you're afraid of the things. You'll either get over it or you won't, but if you don't get over it, you'll spend your career afraid of the machine, which is not healthy. Part of doing this involves reducing the risks you can (maintenance, proficiency, and training, so that you need to rely less upon luck) and accepting the risks that you can't reduce. There's a remote (at most 10e-6) chance that I'll have a propeller control failure when I go to work tomorrow, and that it might result in an unrecoverable overspeed, which might in turn result in loss of control of the aircraft. It's much more likely that I will screw something up, or that someone else will screw something up, the unmanaged threat becomes an error, and the unmanaged error leads to an undesired aircraft state (e.g. the thing that if not properly managed leads to an incident or accident). But I'll still go to work. You have to trust that your coworkers have done their job, and you have to trust yourself to do yours, and be prepared to handle an emergency should it arise. Can you do that? I don't know, that's up to you to sort out.

Do not be afraid of the machine. Respect the machine and its limitations. Huge difference.

So I’d like to hear what everyone has experienced and felt like during their training and their future job prospects.

Have you ever felt like giving up?

Yeah. But then I remembered I didn't enjoy my desk job as much as I (on average) enjoy doing this.

Did you enjoy it, or were you constantly looking towards the future to get passed it?

Both. Things will change.

Is fixed wing what you expected? Are you satisfied?

Better than expected; very satisfied.

Any helicopter pilots sympathize with what I feel? Am I being a big baby?

Not a whirlygig pilot. But see above.

As a side note, I know I am in no place to do this, but I’m also questioning the maintenance of the helicopters and the underlying motives of the business. It’s more than likely induced by my hesitation and cautiousness, but that’s another reason that has my nerves are elevated.

The point of the business is to make money. It's hard to do that if the damn things fall out of the skies everyday, so there's at least a little bit of wrenching going on. Probably more. Lawsuits are expensive.

Family is also the most important thing in my life (no surprise), so the schedule of helicopters and beauty to have the option to live back at “home”, seems like one of the more dominating aspects. Working for someone like Netjets (with the 7/7), would be fantastic, but know the time horizon for that will be 15 years or more, and is an extremely sought after job. Perhaps there are other alternatives?

I spend a lot of time in my houseshoes on reserve, but I live in base.

 

[Springer]

A buddy sent a photo of him doing this a couple of days ago. Logged 8 hours doing this all day yesterday in southern California in very high winds and turbulence. Probably some of the most dangerous flying one can ever do. I was impressed!

 

[Rotor2Wing]

Well I have a similar experience but in reverse. I have been flying helicopters since ~2002 and didn't add-on my first airplane rating until 2011. I felt the exact same as you but about airplanes. I felt rock solid and confident in a helicopter but it has taken much longer to feel like that in the airplane. I think it has a lot to do with what you learned first. They are different machines to master and have very different sensations in flight. I would suggest you talking to your instructor about it. Be honest about how you feel. A good CFI will be able to help you build confidence in your training. One of the biggest things that helped me was just go fly a lot for a few days. Try to arrange a couple of days where you fly 5+ hours each day. Then take a break for a day or two. See how you feel next time you go up. The best thing to do is to fly more not less. You know you can fly helicopters you just need to build your confidence! Fear is good it will keep you alive.

As to the EMS flying, just take one step at a time. You will need 1000hrs PIC to get your first job outside of instructing. Usually the GOM oil and gas support or Vegas tours is your first turbine job. After a couple years you can go to EMS. EMS helicopter pilots are in high demand but they will not lower the time requirements. Different states and programs have different mins but you will need about 2000-3000hrs helicopter time to meet the mins. Usually about 1000-1500hrs turbine time in the mix too. Luckily most helicopter pilot jobs are on a 7on7off 14on14off schedule. So you could have that in Tours, EMS, and Oil and Gas. If you do not mind living in the south Oil and Gas flying is a lot higher paying than EMS in almost all cases. You can make over $100k in the Gulf pretty easy after a few years if you stick around to get in a medium or heavy twin captain job.

Good luck, and give it some time. But follow your heart. Do not force yourself into it if you do not like it!

Are you doing training for your commercial or Instrument right now?

 

[TallFlyer]

The regionals are not all fire and brimstone, but then again I'm on the outside looking in. If you're willing to move to wherever you're based you can have a pretty decent lifestyle, time off, and the ability to travel just about anywhere on the globe without buying a ticket.

As for helos, I know in AK guys can get hired into Astars for summer tours with 1K helo time and no turbine experience. Talking to some of those guys a few years ago they were making 25K with housing provided.

 

[Springer]

Hey look Roger. First time I climbed into just the cockpt of a static display F-4 while in college it scared the crap out of me. Two years later I was flying them. You can do it.

 

[RogerMurdock]

I hate to break this to you, but if you think you're going to fly Helo EMS, you'll be waiting a good while for that to. Almost all of the helo guy's that I work with have 10 years or more experience.

I agree with you that this is definitely the way things normally work, however I chose this particular program because of the exceptional progression of the pilots. Before I began I contacted about 5 former students and within 3 years time, they are all at EMS bases with 1 being involved in oil and gas. This school has some sort of an agreement set up with a turbine operator (tours), which picks up CFIs between 500-800 hours (requiring them to pay for Bell school). From this point they build about 1200 hours of turbine time and at 2,000 hours most have moved on to EMS gigs. Seems like quite the selling point, but apparently it’s been working like clockwork since the inception of the program. Needless to say everyone has great things to say about it.

Whether this is making safe competent EMS pilots is another topic for discussion, but we can leave that for a later conversation.

How many hours do you have in helicopters now?

~50. Not sure if that is enough to make a sound decision, but its drying up the money fast that's for sure.

Fixed wing is a better bet. Your timing would be good going back to fixed wing now. If you can stomach a regional life for awhile in preparation for better things you can make it.

There are good corporate jobs out there too. I am on my 14'th year with the same company and flew 200 hours last year.

As mentioned I’m struggling with the grass is greener mentality, but am trying to find that light at the end of the tunnel if I do make the switch. Every day I train with helicopters is money flowing out the pocketbook that could be spent on fixed wing, which is a bit stressful to think about.

One of the other things in the back of my mind, is that I’d be able to take my family and friends up for fun trips as I trained with fixed wing. I unfortunately can’t do that at the moment as I’m training out of state with helicopters, but isn’t that what flying is all about?

I cant tell you how many times I felt like giving up. There were several times during my Private and Instrument where I didnt fly for a few months. I knew I wanted to fly just like you and kept at it. There were good times and bad. But eventually it all paid off. I have done things I never ever thought I would do because of Aviation. I cant picture myself doing anything else. I now fly corporate/charter and I am having the time of my life.

This is great to hear!

Helicopters scare the poop out of me, but some of that is probably ignorance on my part.

People die in airplanes, helicopters, or on the freeways. (Or even peacefully in their beds.)

I'd say it's perfectly normal to have a time when you're afraid of the things. You'll either get over it or you won't, but if you don't get over it, you'll spend your career afraid of the machine, which is not healthy. Part of doing this involves reducing the risks you can (maintenance, proficiency, and training, so that you need to rely less upon luck) and accepting the risks that you can't reduce.

Do not be afraid of the machine. Respect the machine and its limitations. Huge difference.

Yeah. But then I remembered I didn't enjoy my desk job as much as I (on average) enjoy doing this.

I think in being honest with myself, I am probably afraid of the machine (which I'm sure I’m not alone with regarding R22s). However, coming from my professional life background, as well as exceptional training for fixed wing back in the day, I have more respect for the machines than the CFIs do...which is unnerving. I'll speak more to this later...

And I'm with you, my desk job made me quite depressed.

Well I have a similar experience but in reverse. I have been flying helicopters since ~2002 and didn't add-on my first airplane rating until 2011. I felt the exact same as you but about airplanes. I felt rock solid and confident in a helicopter but it has taken much longer to feel like that in the airplane. I think it has a lot to do with what you learned first. They are different machines to master and have very different sensations in flight. I would suggest you talking to your instructor about it. Be honest about how you feel. A good CFI will be able to help you build confidence in your training. One of the biggest things that helped me was just go fly a lot for a few days. Try to arrange a couple of days where you fly 5+ hours each day. Then take a break for a day or two. See how you feel next time you go up. The best thing to do is to fly more not less. You know you can fly helicopters you just need to build your confidence! Fear is good it will keep you alive.

Good luck, and give it some time. But follow your heart. Do not force yourself into it if you do not like it!

Are you doing training for your commercial or Instrument right now?

Thank you for sharing this. I feel solid on the controls, but extremely shaky on the inside. What will I do if this happens, what will I do if that happens, LOOK OUT FOR THAT BIRD!

The bolded is what has me perplexed at the moment. I love flying and aviation, so it seems that in my brain I should love helicopters. My entire life has been focused on fixed wing, and I just stumbled into this helicopter school just to see what they offered for grins, and here I am.

And I am training for instrument now.

The regionals are not all fire and brimstone, but then again I'm on the outside looking in. If you're willing to move to wherever you're based you can have a pretty decent lifestyle, time off, and the ability to travel just about anywhere on the globe without buying a ticket.

I have quite an extensive bucket list, most of which involves distant travel. Are most people referring to jumpseating when they say they can travel for free?

Hey look Roger. First time I climbed into just the cockpt of a static display F-4 while in college it scared the crap out of me. Two years later I was flying them. You can do it.

F-4s are some of the loudest planes I've ever heard. Pretty cool you got to fly them!

 

[TallFlyer]

I have quite an extensive bucket list, most of which involves distant travel. Are most people referring to jumpseating when they say they can travel for free?

Jumpseating is one avenue of free travel, and yes it is free. It can be hit or miss but in the last 3 months I'm about 11 for 12 on getting on specific SWA flights to go somewhere. FedEx and UPS have both been very good to me, although you can't take them internationally. Check out this thread for some info on riding 747 freighters to the far east. I've not done any international travel myself yet, but again also possible.Non-rev is another way although I've never done it. One of our members comments on some of his experiences here.

It's probably a valid disclaimer to say that you shouldn't get an airline gig JUST for the travel opportunities, but perhaps it could tip the scales for you. Again, do your research, but after first year pay your income can be decent for the amount of work you do. Master bidding and getting a week off without touching vacation is possible. Turning a weeks worth of vacation into three is also possible.

All that said, helos are bad ass.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

RogerMurdock:

There are airmen and there are pilots: the first being part bird whose view from aloft is normal and comfortable, a creature whose brain and muscles frequently originate movements which suggest flight; and then there are pilots who regardless of their airborne time remain earth-loving bipeds forever. When these latter unfortunates, because of one urge or another, actually make an ascension, they neither anticipate nor relish the event and they drive their machines with the same graceless labor they inflict upon the family vehicle.

- Ernest K. Gann

I think I know what you're saying.

 

[WacoFan]

Ian J

You went to fixed-wing freight. You're a helicopter pilot. At some point you will probably leave the service. If you do so, what are some of the helicopter jobs you'd take? What is the helicopter equivalent of say Fedex or UPS or SWA - the job everyone wants? What about Petroleum Helicopters? What is out there? Just curious. Thx in advance.

 

[SeanD]

I hear flying choppers for law enforcement is pretty desirable among helo folks. I also hear its hard to get into.

 

[tomokc]

The right job is the one you'd do for free.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

It should be, but it should also be challenging.

That is one of my biggest regrets about where I went to school.

1) They were really good at taking the fun out of flying. Seriously, the manual on how to fly a Piper Warrior is almost as thick as the one I have on the CRJ-200.

2) Geographic location. We were mostly allowed to go wherever we wanted to on our cross countries. But in the big flat part of the country, that still doesn't mean you're going to have a fun time. Most of my training cross countries were to fly somewhere I never wanted to go to...piss on a hangar because its night time and the FBO is closed...and then fly back.

 

[Ian_J]

Ian J

You went to fixed-wing freight. You're a helicopter pilot. At some point you will probably leave the service. If you do so, what are some of the helicopter jobs you'd take? What is the helicopter equivalent of say Fedex or UPS or SWA - the job everyone wants? What about Petroleum Helicopters? What is out there? Just curious. Thx in advance.

I can't really imagine flying for pay after leaving the service (except for independent part-time CFI-ing). I have a terrific flying job right now and can't think of a civilian job I'd rather do. If forced to choose something, I'd probably pick EMS. It's an important mission, you don't work that much, and when you do fly, the flying is challenging and probably the closest approximation to the type of flying I do now from a challenge perspective.

What's the job everyone wants? I don't know - probably corporate. I've talked quite a bit with former and current corporate pilots and its not for me. A lot of people want LE jobs which are pretty good and pay well enough, but I don't want to be a cop. Any gulf flying is pretty much entry level and not the type of lifestyle I want to live anyway.