Russian transport crash

[Wardogg]

Probably going to end up lav worthy, but here goes.

Russia accuses Ukraine of shooting down military plane carrying 65 Ukrainian POWs

The flight was transporting the captured troops to Belgorod ahead of a prisoner exchange at the border, the Kremlin said. Ukraine cautioned against sharing “unverified information.”

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Already discussing in the Things will get out of hand thread in Lav.

But yup.



Fun trivia.


What country has shot the most civilian airliners down in the past 25 yrs?
Hint:

Starts with an ‘U’ ends with an ‘e’ and has ‘krain’ in the middle.

 

[pwttogfk]

Or as it turns out at least some of the POWs on board had been repatriated some time ago and the plane definitely wasn’t carrying weapons.

This from the same country that tried to spin losing an AWACS due to tactical incompetence as being friendly fire, because somehow that’s better.

Our castoff cold-war era weapons are destroying Russia’s military with Ukraine not even a member or really trained in NATO tactics. We probably could’ve backed off the military industrial complex a touch bit sooner.

 

[Lawman]

Or as it turns out at least some of the POWs on board had been repatriated some time ago and the plane definitely wasn’t carrying weapons.

This from the same country that tried to spin losing an AWACS due to tactical incompetence as being friendly fire, because somehow that’s better.

Our castoff cold-war era weapons are destroying Russia’s military with Ukraine not even a member or really trained in NATO tactics. We probably could’ve backed off the military industrial complex a touch bit sooner.

Point of order…..

As far as tactics they will never be a maneuver centric force which what we see as the center of gravity. They are fires centric, and that’s fine.

So far as NATO tactics though, at the beginning of this war they were using armored vehicles and tanks in single and team level tactics, mostly for ambush and assault gun support. What we’ve seen now with a year of good training in England and Poland of their NCOs in modern tactics is an ability to conduct company level combined arms maneuver. They’ve come a very long way and organizations like 47th mech are building an institutional knowledge to be envied by recency of lessons learned.

The big thing is now that they have Brads and Leo/Abrams they are keeping those trained soldiers alive at far better rates than the Russians. That will be key going forward as I can build a tank in a couple weeks, but it takes years to make a good platoon sgt.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[///AMG]

Already discussing in the Things will get out of hand thread in Lav.

But yup.



Fun trivia.


What country has shot the most civilian airliners down in the past 25 yrs?
Hint:

Starts with an ‘U’ ends with an ‘e’ and has ‘krain’ in the middle.

The one most of us know about was an SA-17 owned and operated by Russia. But yes, they were doing so within the territory of Ukraine.

 

[DE727UPS]

The other Ukrainian POW incident I'm reminded of was the Azov fighters who were captured. Seems like a bomb went off and killed a large number of them at a POW prison. Russia blamed it on Ukraine. Not sure I've heard much about it as it was quite some time ago but at the time it seemed likely the blast was intentional and killed some Russian prison guards. Could see the Russians sacrificing a flight crew to take out a bunch of Ukrainian POW's, even if it was allowing a Ukrainian air defense battery to take a shot, and making a propaganda scene out of the whole deal.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

We probably could’ve backed off the military industrial complex a touch bit sooner.

Preventing a war by deterring it is a whole lot cheaper than fighting one. Europe learned that lesson, the US should as well.

 

[MikeD]

The other Ukrainian POW incident I'm reminded of was the Azov fighters who were captured. Seems like a bomb went off and killed a large number of them at a POW prison. Russia blamed it on Ukraine. Not sure I've heard much about it as it was quite some time ago but at the time it seemed likely the blast was intentional and killed some Russian prison guards. Could see the Russians sacrificing a flight crew to take out a bunch of Ukrainian POW's, even if it was allowing a Ukrainian air defense battery to take a shot, and making a propaganda scene out of the whole deal.

That would be a heck of a trade off just for some propaganda; a qualed flight crew and a strategic airlift aircraft, both of which they need.

 

[///AMG]

That would be a heck of a trade off just for some propaganda; a qualed flight crew and a strategic airlift aircraft, both of which they need.

Yeah, these coordinated shootdown theories often don't really make much sense. Perhaps the one that killed this guy does:
Yevgeny Prigozhin - Wikipedia

But there was a very obvious motive there. MH17, I think they just F'd up and shot the wrong thing. Like we did on the Vincennes. Or the Soviets with KAL 007. Obvious reasons to deny such idiocy publicly. But doesn't make it a conspiracy.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Or the Soviets with KAL 007.

I wouldn’t count this one with the others. They had visual on 007 for several minutes and dude practically flew in formation with it. They knew exactly what it was. They had also shot down KAL 902 in 1979 but that one is less known because only 2 people died and it was able to make an emergency landing on a frozen lake near Murmansk.

Airliner shoot downs have happened way more often than I expected

List of airliner shootdown incidents - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[zmiller4]

Already discussing in the Things will get out of hand thread in Lav.

But yup.



Fun trivia.


What country has shot the most civilian airliners down in the past 25 yrs?
Hint:

Starts with an ‘U’ ends with an ‘e’ and has ‘krain’ in the middle.

They’re tied with Russia and Iran. Stop being disingenuous.

 

[NovemberEcho]

The one most of us know about was an SA-17 owned and operated by Russia. But yes, they were doing so within the territory of Ukraine.

He was referring to Siberian Airlines 1812 in 2001. During a joint Ukraine-Russia exercise Ukraine launched an S-200 at a target drone. The missile missed the drone because it got destroyed by another missile launched at the same time. The missile didn’t self destruct as designed and continued to fly and eventually locked on to the airliner. But this one incident ties Ukraine with Iran and Russia for the last 25 years.