BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
That doesn't include you anymore does it?
Sholdn't you be pouring all your rabidness into your new profession?
Regional Pilots, Poverty Wages or No?
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
That doesn't include you anymore does it?
Sholdn't you be pouring all your rabidness into your new profession?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Bait. Not biting.
Doesn't matter. Who am I to judge what is a liveable wage for someone? I can only judge what is a liveable wage for me. However many share the same sentiment.
Problem here is your argument absolutely makes management/CEOs argument of "why should we pay you more?" Why should they pay more? This argument also supports the assertion that "quit complaining about pay/QOL/etc, you knew what you were getting into when you made the choice to go to X regional."
Dangerous path to go down, argument-wise. IMO.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Well, your opinion.
I think individuals should be held responsible for their poor financial planning. Not every person who wants to fly for a living can do it. The price of enterence might just be too much, and if SLM or PNC Bank won't give you that loan, you're going to have to find another way to attain it. Further, don't complain about what it is you make if you were unable to financially prepare yourself for the challenges of only making 18-29k for one year.
I'm not excusing it, but I don't see how that inhibits the use of negotiating capital to increase the bottom end of the scale, but unless you're taking an active role in improving your individual financial position, why should someone else do it for you?
I don't consider those who are working to improve work rules, benefits, and pay to be complaining. They're merely seeking to increase their overall compensation package, like any employee should be doing. Even those who make 150k a year, who are not complaining, you think they're content to just sit back and not ask for more? I didn't think so.
If people were so passive that they didn't ask for a raise, "Because they knew they were being hired at $xx.xx/hr," then people would never attain a higher standard of living by simply waiting for it to fall into their lap.
All employees, whether they complain or are happy with what they're making, should continually strive to make more, have better work rules, and improved benefits.
I think individuals should be held responsible for their poor financial planning. Not every person who wants to fly for a living can do it. The price of enterence might just be too much, and if SLM or PNC Bank won't give you that loan, you're going to have to find another way to attain it. Further, don't complain about what it is you make if you were unable to financially prepare yourself for the challenges of only making 18-29k for one year.
I'm not excusing it, but I don't see how that inhibits the use of negotiating capital to increase the bottom end of the scale, but unless you're taking an active role in improving your individual financial position, why should someone else do it for you?
I don't consider those who are working to improve work rules, benefits, and pay to be complaining. They're merely seeking to increase their overall compensation package, like any employee should be doing. Even those who make 150k a year, who are not complaining, you think they're content to just sit back and not ask for more? I didn't think so.
If people were so passive that they didn't ask for a raise, "Because they knew they were being hired at $xx.xx/hr," then people would never attain a higher standard of living by simply waiting for it to fall into their lap.
All employees, whether they complain or are happy with what they're making, should continually strive to make more, have better work rules, and improved benefits.
I fully agree. Unfortunately, the unintended consequence of that argument is a double-edged sword that many management would love to spin back for their own reasons.
I also agree. But you know as well as I do that there's huge contention over this argument and the widely varying aspects of it. No one's responsible for you, but you.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Thankfully, "that" argument, doesn't yield much negotiating capital for either group sitting at the table.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I <3 u.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. I'm only in it for the sex
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
:clap:
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
You call it bait, I call it funny. Youre one of the two or three guys I fully expect to see on threads such as this. It seems like 6 months and a furlough has turned so many into experts. Well, I'll give it to you-at least you never paid for a job or tried to tell people you know what the freight life is all about.
Are you organizing at your new place of employment?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
For those who are arguing that commuter pay isn't technically a "poverty wage" I just have to laugh. No, I suppose it doesn't technically meet the requirements. However my sister just got an entry level job as a data entry clerk with the requirement of a highschool diploma and it pays $24,000/year working just 40 hours a week and includes full benefits.
After you've been at the company for a few years it gets a lot better but the pay for what you are actually responsible for is extremely low. Add in the fact that you have to spend $40k to even get certified to be there in the first place and 6 months - 2 years of OJT instructing making actual poverty wages in most cases and it becomes a joke. For the 6 years I've been out of college I've averaged $14/hr ($28,000 year) and that includes a stint as an RJ Captain being factored in.
After you've been at the company for a few years it gets a lot better but the pay for what you are actually responsible for is extremely low. Add in the fact that you have to spend $40k to even get certified to be there in the first place and 6 months - 2 years of OJT instructing making actual poverty wages in most cases and it becomes a joke. For the 6 years I've been out of college I've averaged $14/hr ($28,000 year) and that includes a stint as an RJ Captain being factored in.
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
Again...You are my hero sir.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Replied in PM.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Now youre just flattering me.
Hootie
Old Skool
Alright, I skipped everything since page one, so if I missed something, I apoligize. Surreal, I like how you broke everything down on your expenses post. I think you might have missed a few things. First, a brand new fo is going to need a cell phone. Second unless commuting from bfe there is no way you can find an apartment for $500 in a city with a base, unless you plan on being murdered in your uniform on your way to work cause you pissed your robbers off by only carrying $3 cash on hand. Next my health insurance for two people costs me about $220 a month before I even go to the doc. Lastly I'm sure some people can eat cheap, but $140 a month barely covers ramen noodles in my mind, also what to eat while at work? I'm ALL for saving money so if you know of how to eat somewhat healthy for $150 a month....hook a brother up with the details. Im not argueing at all just looking for some details...thx
On an unrelated note directed at everyone, why does it matter if the govt says $15000 grand for two is poverty? Does $15001 mean your middle class! They both mean that either you are 15 years old bagging groceries or you are an adult and you screwed up! The govt spends most of its resources duping the public with manipulated numbers! Inflation is zero! MY BUTT IT IS! My hot pockets cost $1.5, 5 years ago, now they are anywhere between $2-2.5....remember what milk used to cost....your underwear....this is inflation....the govt lies.
As for actual wages, as much as they suck, we are fortunate to live in a semi-free country with the right to choose your employer and profession....that means you are paid what you are worth. Unfortunately if you don't like it you can go get paid more somewhere else.
Take care everyone
On an unrelated note directed at everyone, why does it matter if the govt says $15000 grand for two is poverty? Does $15001 mean your middle class! They both mean that either you are 15 years old bagging groceries or you are an adult and you screwed up! The govt spends most of its resources duping the public with manipulated numbers! Inflation is zero! MY BUTT IT IS! My hot pockets cost $1.5, 5 years ago, now they are anywhere between $2-2.5....remember what milk used to cost....your underwear....this is inflation....the govt lies.
As for actual wages, as much as they suck, we are fortunate to live in a semi-free country with the right to choose your employer and profession....that means you are paid what you are worth. Unfortunately if you don't like it you can go get paid more somewhere else.
Take care everyone
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Here's a question-
When were those 'poverty levels' last updated?
It would seem that as expensive as the cost of living has gotten these days... that the dollar just doesn't go as far lately.. more so than ever.
I've seen the dollar amount on the insurance certificates my company's planes carry in the logbook now. The staggering amount of insurance per hull that's shared between myself and two other crewmembers is mind-boggling considering how little we're paid.
Management types are always saying high salaries and bonus packages are to "attract and retain the best talent available". Why doesn't that apply to pilots?
Because we're dumb enough to seek other jobs paying more instead of pushing for a decent wage at our present job.
Dur. :banghead:
I've seen other parts of the world. 'Poverty' is a relative term. Every day, I'm responsible for hundreds of lives. Don't tell me that it's entirely 'shared' responsibility, either, because there are times where if I screwed up bad enough there wouldn't be anything the 'other pilot' could do about it.
I'm not asking for six figures to sit right seat in an RJ, but dayamn, if I have to count the change in my pocket at lunch time, there's something wrong with the picture.
When were those 'poverty levels' last updated?
It would seem that as expensive as the cost of living has gotten these days... that the dollar just doesn't go as far lately.. more so than ever.
I've seen the dollar amount on the insurance certificates my company's planes carry in the logbook now. The staggering amount of insurance per hull that's shared between myself and two other crewmembers is mind-boggling considering how little we're paid.
Management types are always saying high salaries and bonus packages are to "attract and retain the best talent available". Why doesn't that apply to pilots?
Because we're dumb enough to seek other jobs paying more instead of pushing for a decent wage at our present job.
Dur. :banghead:
I've seen other parts of the world. 'Poverty' is a relative term. Every day, I'm responsible for hundreds of lives. Don't tell me that it's entirely 'shared' responsibility, either, because there are times where if I screwed up bad enough there wouldn't be anything the 'other pilot' could do about it.
I'm not asking for six figures to sit right seat in an RJ, but dayamn, if I have to count the change in my pocket at lunch time, there's something wrong with the picture.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Of course, the individual purchases we make are going to eat away at our annual income. That doesn't mean though that our annual incomes is less than that which is the federal poverty level. I already mentioned this to jhugz earlier.
Firebird, federal poverty levels are calculated annually.
Hootie
Old Skool
Of course, the individual purchases we make are going to eat away at our annual income. That doesn't mean though that our annual incomes is less than that which is the federal poverty level. I already mentioned this to jhugz earlier.
True that...now when are you gonna hook me up with your two person grocery list under $140! I could retire with those kind of savings
My boy wheelsup I bet could come up with a darn good bang for the buck grocery list.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
I really never got the point of this thread from the very second post. Surreal, I don't get it and I usually domn't have much issue with your posts. Seems to me the fact is salaries are piss poor. So what if they're actually 2, 3 or even 5K above the official federal declared by god poverty line. They're still poverty wages period. Why you would even waste time arguing that is beyond me?
If I make 60K, ok yeah in probably 80% of cities that's a great livable wage. In NYC, that's pretty much poiverty level wages. 4 times above the official level. It's all relative. The point is, regional airline salaries are piss poor, many charter and freight joints' salaries are piss porr. Amerijet's salaries are piss poor. Why even bother to argue the Amerijet union statement on the basics of semantics?
If I make 60K, ok yeah in probably 80% of cities that's a great livable wage. In NYC, that's pretty much poiverty level wages. 4 times above the official level. It's all relative. The point is, regional airline salaries are piss poor, many charter and freight joints' salaries are piss porr. Amerijet's salaries are piss poor. Why even bother to argue the Amerijet union statement on the basics of semantics?
