Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
My favorite part is dodging the homeless people while I walk to my crashpad.
Regional Pilots, Poverty Wages or No?
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
My favorite part is dodging the homeless people while I walk to my crashpad.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
I dodged some on the way to the club last nite
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Surreal1221 said:
Your statement was pretty simple Mike. You indicated that so many regionals make poverty wages as well. Which, isn't the case. Back away from it all you wish, doesn't bother me any. But the reason I took the time to run those figures is in the above quote.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
My guess is the easy access to the narcotics they've addicted themselves to coupled with cheaper housing than California since they know they won't be bringing in millions a year anymore. Oh, and the dog fights.
Besides, I'd like to see your definition of "most." I doubt 51% of retired pro athletes have property or retired to ATL. I call "Another Made Up Stat By Marcus" on this one.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-a-favored-spot-106640.html
Atlanta a favored spot for athletes to call home
By D. ORLANDO LEDBETTER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta’s eclectic mix of high-end real estate, business opportunities, climate and a sizzling nightlife continues to be a magnet that attracts professional athletes.
In late 2008, Julius “Dr. J” Erving purchased the Heritage Golf Course in Norcross and is reportedly looking for a home in the area.
When Jerome “The Bus” Bettis decided to retire, the native of Detroit made a decision to park the Bus in north Fulton.
“I was attracted to Atlanta, even when I was in college,” said Tyrone Hill, a former NBA player who lived here before joining the Atlanta Hawks staff as an assistant coach. “We [Xavier] played Michigan in the NCAA tournament [in 1989]. We lost and went out to dinner, and we got a chance to hang out a little bit. I fell in love with the city then.”
Former and current NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB players call the metro area home, some at least for part of the year.
From current Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall to former NBA star Ralph Sampson.
The real estate market is a major attraction.
“You can buy a good $800,000 house, compared to living in California or L.A., and get a nice piece of property,” said Hill, a native of Cincinnati and a former All-Star who played 14 years in the NBA. “Instead of paying $3 [million] or $4 million, you can pay $800,000 and get a real nice house here. That’s the most important thing that guys look at, the real estate, the weather, and we’ve got some great restaurants.”
There is also a group of athletes — such as Buffalo’s Terrell Owens — who have secondary homes in the area. Owens, who drops by Hawks and Georgia Tech basketball games, has a house off Panola Road. He’s spending more time this offseason, however, at his residence in Miami.
“Atlanta tends to be a spot where a lot of athletes like to have a second home in, like South Beach [Miami],” said Lisa Robinson, the founder and principal broker of the Robinson Realty Group, who has sold homes to several current and former pro athletes. “So they may have a condo or a smaller place here because they frequent this area.”
Just about every sector of the metro area — from Alpharetta to Jonesboro — has some current or retired pro athlete residing there.
“The Falcons like to stay closer to the facility where they have to go and work out,” Robinson said. “The Hawks like to stay more intown because they have to get in and out of Philips for practice regularly. I know a few of the new Braves have purchased intown units in the W downtown.
“The new, sexy, intown living with full amenities is appealing to guys who travel a lot because they get the benefit of full hotel and concierge services and a great intown place. That’s probably the newest appealing thing that we have in the marketplace.”
The Atlanta chapter of the NFL Players Association currently has about 425 dues-paying members, said chapter President Dewey McClain, who played for the Falcons from 1976-80 and never left.
“When we have a meeting, 20 to 25 teams are represented,” McClain said. “When they have a meeting in Green Bay, I’m sure 98 percent of them played for Green Bay.”
The NFL Players Association doesn’t keep close tabs on where many players retire because many do not become members of the NFLPA Retired Players Association. But some of its larger chapters include Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami and Phoenix.
“We average 120-plus members in each of those chapters, so I would imagine that many more players are there,” Qiana Thomas, of the NFLPA Retired Players Association, wrote in an e-mail to the AJC.
Several players, such as Bettis, are transplanted Northerners who enjoy the climate.
“If you want to live 20 to 30 minutes outside of the city, then that’s not too far to drive on it,” McClain said. “Our young guys say the nightlife is great. Hartsfield-Jackson is one of the best airports in the world. If you have to fly out of town for business, it’s not a major hassle.”
Bettis had to fly to Lake Tahoe to play in a celebrity golf outing in July.
Erving, who changed Heritage’s name to Julius Erving’s Celebrity Golf Club International, is usually at the course three or four times a week and attends Cascade United Methodist Church in southwest Atlanta.
Tim Ecclestone, who played for the Atlanta Flames, turned down the chance to be an NHL coach to stay in the metro area. The native of Toronto has called Atlanta home since 1974.
“Atlanta is a great city even today, but back in those days there was no traffic to speak of,” said Ecclestone, who has owned T.J.’s Sports Bar and Grill in Alpharetta since 1990. “You could get around anywhere you wanted to go. The climate is great. Our kids loved it here. You’ve got everything to offer here.”
The golf courses in the area were also an attraction for him.
“I just fell in love with the climate down here, the lifestyle and everything else,” Ecclestone said. “I enjoy golf, so I’ve been able to play golf all over the place. Evel Knievel was a great friend of mine, and Evel and I used to play all the time.”
A native of Washington, Jarrett Jack moved to Atlanta to play basketball at Georgia Tech. He made a promise to his mother that if he left school to turn pro he would return to Tech to finish his business degree, which he’s working on this summer.
He lives here in the offseason. He just signed a multi-year deal with the Toronto Raptors but played last season with Indiana after spending three seasons with Portland.
“I love everything about the city,” said Jack, who helped guide the Yellow Jackets to the 2004 NCAA title game. “It isn’t too fast or too slow, but most of all it has its own identity.”
Former major league baseball player and Atlanta native Marquis Grissom has worked as an ambassador for the metro area. He persuaded former major-leaguer Delino DeShields to move to the area during their playing days.
The two, who are now coaches, are still neighbors in Fayette County.
Dorsey Levens, a native of Syracuse, N.Y., started his collegiate career with Bettis at Notre Dame. He ended up transferring to Georgia Tech before going on to an 11-year NFL career with the Green Bay Packers, New York Giants and Philadelphia Eagles.
“When I played in Green Bay ... it just made since to have an offseason spot,” Levens said.
Levens’ old offseason spot was a mini-mansion in southwest Atlanta with a basketball halfcourt in the backyard.
Now, he resides in Buckhead and works as an NFL and ACC football expert for Comcast. He’s also set to start doing some play-by-play for Georgia Tech games on Comcast.
“For me, Atlanta is just a nice city,” Levens said. “The weather is good. There are a million restaurants. There is always something coming through here, whether it is a concert, a play or a live band at a jazz club. It’s the best of both worlds.
Some of Levens’ favorite spots are Prime restaurant at Lenox Square, Twists, Houston’s in Buckhead and the Cheesecake Factory.
“You can go out every night if you want to, or you can stay home and go out occasionally,” he said. “Either way, Atlanta is perfect for that.”
It was a simple statement. Am not backing away at all from it, am only clarifying what I meant and how I meant it. In the big picture, figuratively speaking, the wages are extremely low for regional guys any way you slice it.......poverty level by comparison to any other professional flying gig of that magnitude. It's not the fault of the pilots and they're not being blamed or judged, it's a hit on that entire industry.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
My share of course
did you wear your pilot shirt to the club?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I read the article. Still doesn't say "most of the pro atheletes" live or have homes in ATL. It gives a list of some that do, but that list, at best, is less than the number of guys on the Braves. Possibly less than the Hawks. I counted about 10 guys mentioned in the article. I could probably find 10 atheletes living in Memphis if I dug hard enough. Might even turn up a washed up actor or two.
JaceTheAce
Well-Known Member
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Re: Amerijet On Strike!
Umm... Jetblue doesn't have a contract. Hence no raises yet for the 190 despite the company "agreeing" to them.
Not saying Jetblue isn't a good place, just that they don't have a legally enforceable contract.
Umm... Jetblue doesn't have a contract. Hence no raises yet for the 190 despite the company "agreeing" to them.
Not saying Jetblue isn't a good place, just that they don't have a legally enforceable contract.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: Amerijet On Strike!
Quickest way to get a union on property? Management doesn't follow through on paying people.....
Quickest way to get a union on property? Management doesn't follow through on paying people.....
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
And I'm sure that, if as an IP, a student told you that his opinion on a limitation for his airframe is what he uses, when in reality the limitation is quite easily identified as another number or statement within the AFM. I would imagine that, as an IP, one would correct the false opinion so that it no longer causes any confusion.
Right?
I don't get what you're arguing. So wages are good at the regionals? So they aren't low? So they don't need improvement? You're taking what I said to a literal extreme.
You're firing arty at friendlies.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Actually, I'm not saying any of that.
I'm challenging the statement that regional pilots are making poverty level wages. I thought I was pretty clear about that. Yet, it appears, you didn't recognize the sentences saying such.
But, to make it simple . . .
Wages are not great.
They are low.
They need improvement.
But - only one company has wages below poverty level at the 2 person family category, and six have wages below poverty level at the 3 person family category. Out of 25, I don't consider that many, as you stated. Further, no AmeriJet pilot is making poverty level wages, unless they are a First Year FO or SO with a 8 or 6 person family respectively.
Just because we might agree that wages are not great, that they are low, and that they need improvement, does that mean I shouldn't take the steps required to put a fallacy to it's rightful death? Just as people claiming all pilots make 300k a year, work only 5 days a month, sometimes the reality needs to be exposed. It's exposed on the high end, and now is exposed on the low end.
I'm sorry that you think I'm taking this to a literal extreme, but if someone says one thing that has no factual basis, and then another person goes to see if that is correct and they find out that it is not, you'd like them to keep their mouth shut?
I compiled the data, and in the end, it turned out that not so many regional pilots actually earn an income below the federal poverty level, and that's being nice by adding another body that isn't earning an income into the data. Single person poverty levels, no one comes close.
Do you still stand by your statement that so many regionals are making poverty level wages (as recognized by the federal poverty level data)? (Note: I'm not asking your opinion on if they are low, need improvement, or are great).
I'm also not asking you if they are poverty level compared to the mainline wages, which you tried to make the comparison to a couple posts back.
What you're completely missing though, is taking a figurative statement and turning it into a literal one, when the meaning of said statement has already been explained. Now I realize that on a forum setting, specific meaning(s) of a singular statement can't always be known, but even after an expansion and explanation of the statement for what it was intended, we're still doing a "who's on first" Abbott and Costello routine here!
Are they literally making federal poverty wages, based on what you've shown? Doesn't seem so. Is the pay liveable and workable as is? Depends on who you talk to.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Not at all.
I just hope that you've realized that, in reality, regional pilots living below the poverty level is quite rare.
Your initial reply made it out to seem that all regional pilots ("...so many regionals") were living below the federal poverty level.
And of course we're working daily to improve the work rules, pay, and benefits for every pilot out there. No employee should ever be content with the amount of money they earn, or the work rules they work, or the benefits they receive. One should never tell his/her boss No Thanks to that raise, or improve work rules. There is always room to improve. But, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be factual.
I just hope that you've realized that, in reality, regional pilots living below the poverty level is quite rare.
Your initial reply made it out to seem that all regional pilots ("...so many regionals") were living below the federal poverty level.
And of course we're working daily to improve the work rules, pay, and benefits for every pilot out there. No employee should ever be content with the amount of money they earn, or the work rules they work, or the benefits they receive. One should never tell his/her boss No Thanks to that raise, or improve work rules. There is always room to improve. But, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be factual.
Attachments
"So many regionals" don't have a liveable wage for junior personnel, is the argument I was making. Is that a broad statement? Sure it is. But for many, with their life situations, it's completely true.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Ah . . . finally.
Thanks for the clarification Mike. You didn't write the IBT press release, but when you responded to their simple sentence, you were using their language to further your statement. Which, in the end, wasn't necessarily correct.
Time to go watch Mad Men.
Or not, thankfully it's recording. Already missed the first six minutes.
What individual A considers a livable income is irrelevant to individual B. Is the wages livable to a husband who has a spouse earning 35, 40, 60, 80k a year? Is it a livable wage when an individual has quite the savings account established before they made a career change to live on to supplement their flying earnings? What if they run a business?
While I may agree that anyone flying professionally shouldn't have to dip into their savings account, run their own business, or mooch off their spouse to make ends meet, the reality is that it's an individual decision (or a family based one). If someone is unable to accept the financial responsibility with paying your dues, and grinding it out making sub-50k a year money, then perhaps they shouldn't have entered the game in the first place.
Thanks for the clarification Mike. You didn't write the IBT press release, but when you responded to their simple sentence, you were using their language to further your statement. Which, in the end, wasn't necessarily correct.
Time to go watch Mad Men.
Or not, thankfully it's recording. Already missed the first six minutes.
What individual A considers a livable income is irrelevant to individual B. Is the wages livable to a husband who has a spouse earning 35, 40, 60, 80k a year? Is it a livable wage when an individual has quite the savings account established before they made a career change to live on to supplement their flying earnings? What if they run a business?
While I may agree that anyone flying professionally shouldn't have to dip into their savings account, run their own business, or mooch off their spouse to make ends meet, the reality is that it's an individual decision (or a family based one). If someone is unable to accept the financial responsibility with paying your dues, and grinding it out making sub-50k a year money, then perhaps they shouldn't have entered the game in the first place.
