Need Advice: Stay or go?

[clipperstall]

To those with any advice...

I currently live in OKC and have an offer to go to the regionals and pursue my lifelong dream. I have no debt, no mortgage, no car loan, no student loans, and a great income (think RJ 18 year captain pay). I currently work for the FAA (not an inspector).

My lady friend and I have been long distance for four years of her undergraduate education. Finally after a difficult four years of long distance, she will be coming back to Oklahoma for med school. I must note that she's probably "the one"- so I don't want to wreck it.

With that said, this regional airline would be non-commutable from OKC due to the junior base I would be located at. The lady is not very supportive of my opportunity and wants me to stay with the FAA in a cubicle and be home with her everyday while she studies through four tough years of med school.

I feel like if I go, I will be giving up career stability, money, and being home every night with the lady. This might even put our relationship into jeapordy. (So the sugar momma thing isn't a guarantee)...

If I don't go to the airlines I feel like I will regret it for the rest of my life. I dislike being chained to a cube- but that is the ONLY con of the job.

Basically, we would have to be long distance again, and I would only be able to see her when I nonrev home. From what I understand, even with being a lineholder, that would only give me maybe one full day with her possibly twice a month due to the multi-leg commute. (Current airline pilots please clarify)..

What should I do? I don't have enough life experience to know if the grass is greener in the cockpit...

Should I stay or go?

Thanks for your help.
Sincerely,
clipperstall

 

[FlyChicaga]

Personally, I would stay where you are at. If you are making 18-year regional captain pay, and your lady (who could be the one) is going to med school, you'd be crazy to give that all up for the regional airlines. Instead, I would seriously look into either buying an airplane, or buying a share of an airplane. This way, you would be able to take trips to the cities that we fly to day in, day out... Only on YOUR schedule. No 3:45AM wakeup calls, 4:45AM vans, 6:00AM departures, and 13-hour duty days. You could sleep in, get to the FBO (no TSA!), fly how you like, on your own pace.

Big airplanes are cool, I will admit. However, after a little while the "cool" factor wears off, and you realize the view is the same regardless of how many seats are behind you. Not to mention, many GA aircraft these days are light years beyond Regional Jets in terms of cockpit displays, weather radar, and so forth. I'm often jealous of the G1000-type planes with the XM Satellite WX uplink, because we don't have very good weather dissemination.

Just from reading between the lines, it doesn't sound like you are too keen on the idea of being away from your woman for too long. I'd hope she wouldn't leave you because you are chasing your dreams...

Good luck.

 

[subpilot]

The above shall be regarded with a healthy dose of .

That was very good advise and I agree 100%. I didn't sense any degree of sarcasm. lol

 

[clipperstall]

Before I got this job... one of my mentors who used to be a pilot and was working here told me that this desk opportunity will always be here but an aviation career won't be. He lost his medical halfway through his aviation career. Also, isn't there something to be said for chasing your dream and enjoying going to work? Oh and that was a typo about the pay, I make more like a 14 year RJ captain pay. Sorry about that. Does that change things now?

 

[FlyChicaga]

That was very good advise and I agree 100%. I didn't sense any degree of sarcasm. lol

Sometimes I put my serious hat on.


Clipper, honestly, you need to do what will make YOU happy. If you will always wonder, "what if," then I say go for it. However, there are sacrifices that will need to be made, so you should become aware of them, and be prepared for them. If you are uncomfortable with the sacrifices, then that should raise a red flag. I think too many people make choices on the best case scenario, when they should make their decisions based more on reality. So become acquainted with the reality (JC is a GREAT resource for that), write down the positives and negatives of both decisions, and come to a conclusion.

For my entire life, I wanted to be a fighter pilot in the Navy. I know if I kept down the path I laid out for myself in high school and college, I would have achieved that dream. However, in college, some other realities set in... There were other things that were important to me, and I would have to sacrifice those things for my dream. I deliberated about it, then decided I was going to choose another path. I just couldn't bring myself to give up those things. The past few months, I've had to do that again, and it is leading me down an entirely new path.

I think you'll figure it out. Just weigh the positives and negatives, and figure out what is really important to you.

 

[Nick]

I currently live in OKC and have an offer to go to the regionals and pursue my lifelong dream. I have no debt, no mortgage, no car loan, no student loans, and a great income (think RJ 18 year captain pay). I currently work for the FAA (not an inspector).

With that said, this regional airline would be non-commutable from OKC due to the junior base I would be located at. The lady is not very supportive of my opportunity and wants me to stay with the FAA in a cubicle and be home with her everyday while she studies through four tough years of med school.

I feel like if I go, I will be giving up career stability, money, and being home every night with the lady. This might even put our relationship into jeapordy. (So the sugar momma thing isn't a guarantee)...

If I don't go to the airlines I feel like I will regret it for the rest of my life. I dislike being chained to a cube- but that is the ONLY con of the job.

Basically, we would have to be long distance again, and I would only be able to see her when I nonrev home. From what I understand, even with being a lineholder, that would only give me maybe one full day with her possibly twice a month due to the multi-leg commute. (Current airline pilots please clarify)..

First let me say I have never been in a situation even remotely close to yours. Never given thought to "the one" never made a career change and never made ~$90K.

But, you sound like you want to fly instead of what you are doing now.

I guess from my point of view, my question is how important is it for you to get married to this woman, and how important is it for you to stay in OKC?

If both of those are 'optional' for you then maybe you ought to take the flying job and see what happens.

It seems like you are not treating it as 'optional' though. You seem to have your mind made up: she's coming back to OKC and you're already there.

Your time at home estimate does seem a bit low. One day at a time on your days off is a little light even for someone commuting to reserve. If you got some seniority and a good schedule, you could end up with 12-14 full days in OKC each month. Still not ideal, but if that's where you want to live then at least you've got that going for you.

How easy or difficult would it be for you to get a good paying job at the FAA back in a few years if you decided to pursue flying and then wanted out? I think that would be the deciding factor for me. If you leave this job you've got now and have very little chance of getting that pay rate back, it might behoove you to leave well enough alone and just get as much enjoyment as you can from flying GA on your own dime. With your salary in OKC you'd easily be able to afford a share of a small plane at a club, or just rent from an FBO a bunch of times per year as long as you are living within your means. But, if it's something you could get back fairly easily in a few years, then maybe it's time to get a seniority number at whatever place you've got the option to get one with and try out the airline thing.

 

[DE727UPS]

I say put your flying career off and wait for the sugar momma. If you still want to be an airline pilot in a few years, it will be there. How old are you?

 

[clipperstall]

25.. I do putt around in a 172 every now and then but it doesn't seem to be feeding the bug. While 12-14 days off sounds great, the reality probably wouldn't be that I would actually get all of those days off-- would it? Commuting to DTW is a multi-leg commute and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that require an entire day to commute TO work and another day commuting back FROM work? How long would it take me to build up the seniority necessary to have a schedule with 12-14 days off?

As far as getting my job back at the FAA- it is correct to assume it wouldn't happen at this pay rate. It is very difficult to get your foot in the government door.

It doesn't seem to me that I am thinking logically about this whole situation because I am a young guy and we are comparing my dream job to the job I have now.. I made a pro's and cons list to compare the two.

FAA PROS: Stability, Money, Schedule, Retirement
FAA CONS: Not Fun

PILOT PROS: Childhood Dream/Passion, Fun, Travel, People
PILOT CONS: Low Pay, Time Away, Commute, Instability, Potential Relationship Issues

If anyone was keeping track, it seems there are many more cons than pros to being a pilot and switching careers. The pro's of being a pilot can't be quantified evenly or fairly because they seem to be more abstract rather than concrete.

Did I miss anything from my list? Does flying point A-B get redundant and begin to feel like a job or does that enjoyment level still exist even years into the career?

P.S. It's not as easy as you think to just go buy an airplane. They are expensive as well as an ongoing expense. Currently saving for a house downpayment so I try to limit my cash burning hobby.

 

[DE727UPS]

A multi leg commute will take between a day and a half a day. It depends on your work schedule, airline schedule, company commuting policy, and how brave you are...

The job is both enjoyable and redundant. Some of the passion will wear off, no doubt. Some will remain. But it will become just another job at some point. Nothing else I'd rather do but it's just a job.

You are very young at 25. Seriously, the career will be there at 30 or 35 if you want it. You can have your cake and eat it too if you wait. If this girl means that much to you and is going to be a doctor, you could fly later and if you don't make it to the top, it won't matter. You will be able to afford to do the regional thing, and when you get sick of that, you can find a comfortable niche and maybe be happy with it. Everyone is shooting for the top of the career. Some get stuck in the middle. A regional job will wear on you and it won't take that long. Then we'll see how much passion you have for flying. Hope you really do cause you're gonna need it.

 

[clipperstall]

The lady and I talked about it over the weekend. Long story short, she basically said she would leave me if I went to the airlines. She told me she didn't want that lifestyle as a future wife and that the career sucks (after me sending her every resource imaginable such as "The Truth About The Profession"). She said I would be going to the airlines for selfish reasons and that it would benefit no one but possibly myself. OUCH! The truth hurts.

I talked to a pilot friend of mine the other day and he said to take a sabbatical from the government job and go fly for a year to see how it is. He said it's not a job, it's a lifestyle. He also told me it's a lonely job living out of a suitcase in hotels. That's the stuff I want to hear about that I am not seeing or thinking about from you guys on JC.

It sounds to me like the lifestyle sucks but the flying is fun. I'm not sure I want that kind of lifestyle.

With the 1500 hour rule probably going into effect in 2013 and the 65 age limitation causing retirees, now might be a good time if ever. But is it worth it? No risk no reward?

 

[DE727UPS]

"The Truth About The Profession".... The guy that wrote this is very biased towards the negative. He once had something I wrote on his site but I asked him to remove it once I saw the overall picture he portrays. It's his opinion, and that's great, but he writes like his experience is THE way it is. And I took exception with his title as it suggests his opinion is a fact for all...which it isn't. But whatever. All I can say is my experience has been much better. And I don't use semantics to imply that how it is with me will be how it is with you.

The career is a lifestyle, no doubt, it's different. It's not for everybody and it sounds like you'd rather keep the girl happy than chase the career. Personally, I don't get lonely in hotels and don't mind living out of a suitcase when I work. I honestly don't mind the lifestyle. Being stuck in a cubicle 5 days a week with a one hour drive each way to the burbs would drive me crazy. But to each his own.

 

[lr31apilot]

Hey Clipper Stall,

My worthless opinion is to stay put and try to get into the right seat of a 135 King Air in Oklahoma City somewhere. The best part about your position is that you have a job and are not desperate. You have the power to wait it out and find a job that fits you. Don’t work for less than you are worth. With your FAA background you could be very valuable to a 135 outfit and worth a lot more than any regional will pay you.

I did a lot of face-to-face research and had to (a little reluctantly) face the reality that a 121 regional career is not the right thing for me right now. It mostly has to do with being worth more than $20K a year and having a responsibility to my family to provide a better income and quality of life. My hope is that as more and more of us don't return 121 regional interview phone calls demand will go up and they start paying more. I would love to fly 121 someday.

Good luck and let us know whatever you choose.

 

[Maurus]

I would wait for a corporate gig. Maybe part time cfi in the mean time. No need to jump into a bad qol when you have a good job and can wait for the good flying jobs own up.

 

[z987k]

If the 172 isn't curring the itch, and you're making that good of money with almost no obligations, go try a super decathlon... if that doesn't work go try a pitts. Instruct on the side if you want to get a few more hours and like said above, look for a part time 135 or corporate gig that might fulfill your desire to fly a jet.

 

[moxiepilot]

Anyone can get a job, not everyone will come across a lifetime companion. I guess it comes down to which is more important to you, a job or companion.

 

[jynxyjoe]

To those with any advice...

I currently live in OKC and have an offer to go to the regionals and pursue my lifelong dream. I have no debt, no mortgage, no car loan, no student loans, and a great income (think RJ 18 year captain pay). I currently work for the FAA (not an inspector).

My lady friend and I have been long distance for four years of her undergraduate education. Finally after a difficult four years of long distance, she will be coming back to Oklahoma for med school. I must note that she's probably "the one"- so I don't want to wreck it.

With that said, this regional airline would be non-commutable from OKC due to the junior base I would be located at. The lady is not very supportive of my opportunity and wants me to stay with the FAA in a cubicle and be home with her everyday while she studies through four tough years of med school.

I feel like if I go, I will be giving up career stability, money, and being home every night with the lady. This might even put our relationship into jeapordy. (So the sugar momma thing isn't a guarantee)...

If I don't go to the airlines I feel like I will regret it for the rest of my life. I dislike being chained to a cube- but that is the ONLY con of the job.

Basically, we would have to be long distance again, and I would only be able to see her when I nonrev home. From what I understand, even with being a lineholder, that would only give me maybe one full day with her possibly twice a month due to the multi-leg commute. (Current airline pilots please clarify)..

What should I do? I don't have enough life experience to know if the grass is greener in the cockpit...

Should I stay or go?

Thanks for your help.
Sincerely,
clipperstall

(I took the woman out of the equation on this segment of advice, with the assumption there isn't just one man for one woman and all that stuff)
I know it's tough separating fact from fiction but there is lies the problem, where are the facts? The internet? Kitt Darby? A few guys who got lucky and made all the right moves? The jerks like me who would burn the whole industry down given half a chance? Attributing worth to a career is difficult to summarize but easy to advertise.

I made more outside of the airlines than I made/make in it with entry level jobs outside of the airlines/ 135. Looking back I probably would have rewound this "career" and stayed where I was for at least a few more years. I'm just negative, I've destine myself for failure with that attitude right? Eh...

I took these 16 days off a month and vacation and free travel and started up a business with my long time buddy. Now I'm tied to this regional job a little more than I ever was before, but it's worth it to me to have a business with no debt or payroll. Helps buy fun toys too.

How many other "negative pilots" are doing the same thing? We are negative so we are naturally useless and destined for failure right? But wait, we made the lemon aid out of the lemons life gave us. People will tell you that to be happy you just have to make yourself happy. You can shine a turd if you convince yourself you can. Ok... when you are, done you still just have a shined up turd right? MY point is, sometimes the negative people are right, even if other people don't want to hear it. Some people just take what they can get and believe that's happiness. Life isn't that way, you can have whatever you want if you work hard enough.

My advice to you and any other trying to come to the airline industry is this:
-ego gratification and days off won't pay your mortgage or keep your family together
-your fellow "professionals" are happy to cut you apart if it helps them an inch (there are a million examples but a national seniority list is the biggest example I feel)
-pay doesn't matter to the overwhelming majority of pilots in the beginning making the foundation of pilot compensation flawed
-if you come to this "profession" you better not have your hands open asking "please sir more", instead pillage the village and expect to be seen as a "boat tipper"

Want to know what will begin to the fix the industry? One contract, one list, one nation as a closed shop. People will say that you, the pilot are just the cog in the machine. That's fine, an igniter on a jet turbine engine is just a cog in the wheel, it still costs about 50k an igniter. We aren't even limiting the cogs you can buy for your airline, we are just exacting price control. That's something that I do in my business by the way.

I'd tell you to stay at your profession and buy an airplane someday. Stay away from this nonsense until we fix the profession.

 

[Boris Badenov]

You do it and you're completley out of your mind. And I'm making a move on the girlfriend, too.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Forget the regionals man. I'm guessing you have OK times and your ratings. Why not try and get into some 135 flying or find a 91 part time gig. Your wife will be gone a lot and you may have time to do some trips and fly all kinds of cool airplanes. PC12, KA200 and Cj's are all super fun to fly and you will learn a lot and be challenged. When you retire early at like 50 or whatever the goverment gives people now a days you can hand pick great jobs because you have never gone broke. Also, your background will be seen as a major plus by management.

One day you might be like me mobbing around at .90 mach a laughing at all of the regionals. All the while keeping your FAA retirement. We have a couple of guys like that here where I am. Take it slow. No sense rushing into what many consider a horrible quality of life. The way I see it you have 50 years to live out your aviation dream, why burn out early?

But dude seriously please don't take a job for reduced pay because of your wife's income or your FAA retirement. Ask around like you have already done and find out the proper wage and way to do things. Remember take your time. It is really hard to shake the feeling of working for less, it eats you up slowly. Please don't do it and we'll be cool. Ya dig?

 

[dtpilot]

Wow, looks like she's putting you on the spot. Choose her or the flying job. Sorry to hear that, because I believe IMHO that in a relationship, you support one another in their likes, interests, and dreams. You don't squash them, and say "no" you can't do it. I'm not in your shoes, so only you can decide what's best for you.

As an example, I ride motorcycles, and thank goodness, my wife likes them too. Dangerous, yes, but so is flying, driving, climbing, etc. Every time I talk to someone, who shows an interest in motorcycles, but then says "my wife or girlfriend won't let me ride", I shake my head in disbelief. Yeah, I'm not in their relationship, but for me, I'm not going to let anybody tell me what I cannot do, even my significant other. If she wants to go skydive, I'll say "hell yes, go for it", although you won't ever find me doing that! It's called "living life to the fullest".

As a side note, what about transitioning as an internal FAA person to the flight check position? I've applied to the position before, but being a non-veteran, leaves me pretty much out of luck there. I'm assuming that you would have a shot as an internal employee. I recall seeing the position posted for internals recently too.

One other thing about flying at least on the airline side, timing and seniority IS everything.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[ElationAviation]

Wow, looks like she's putting you on the spot. Choose her or the flying job. Sorry to hear that, because I believe IMHO that in a relationship, you support one another in their likes, interests, and dreams. You don't squash them, and say "no" you can't do it. I'm not in your shoes, so only you can decide what's best for you.

As a lady who is in a long-distance relationship of 2.5 years with a college grad who is waiting on ATC, I can relate to where she's coming from. It's easy to support your significant other in their endeavors but when they claim to be doing it for both of you when you really don't see a benefit to anyone but him/her, that's when it becomes turbulent. She did her duty and spent 4 years in college. She most likely chose OK for med school to be with you. If you jump ship and ditch her, of course she's going to throw her arms up.
I'm hoping to bring a lady's PoV to this. You want her to be "the one"... so SHOW her. She went through 4 years of not being with you. That in itself is clear-cut proof that she's determined to stick with you. Would the FAA or regionals do that for you? Nuh uh.
I understand that you want to fly. But you have someone else who you need to think about. My boy has thought about the regionals too (even applied to Eagle). I stomped my feet at first (and yes, pulled the "I'll leave" card) but when I realized he was willing to relocate completely so we'd be together I simmered down.
You have a perfectly great job. You're able to afford housing. I would KILL to have that for my other half. There's more to aviation than airlines. And there's certainly more to life than flying.