multi time?

ATP does not do it in a 172... they do it in a crew environment in a complex multi, on extended coast to coast cross country flights, into busy class B airspace, through some of the nations busiest airspace, over mountains, into weather that is different from students primary training area, and only after they complete a course which details the benefits of SP time and how to use it to properly learn from both seats. Your idea of what each pilot "should" be doing is simply your opinion and based on that opinion, I can see why you don't feel SP time is beneficial.

Bob

They do now (or will shortly), if they are starting to do single engine cross countries.

Any person should be able to fly into busy class B airspace if they have a private pilot's license otherwise their instructor did poorly.

ATP provides a service and provides exactly what they say they will for exactly how much they say in generally speaking the time they said it would take. For some people this is worth the extra cost -- I appreciated this when I went through the course but after CFIing for over a year I realized that I could have got things much cheaper for not much more time.
 
They do now (or will shortly), if they are starting to do single engine cross countries.
Thanks for the update... I didn't know this. It's been a while since I did the program. ;)

Are they actually going to do "crew" SE XC's where SP time is involved, or is the added SE XC time part of the Instrument/Instructional training with an instructor?
 
When you throw two pilots into an airplane and have them practice CRM like ATP wants them to I think it can become blurry who is ACTING as PIC.
 
When you throw two pilots into an airplane and have them practice CRM like ATP wants them to I think it can become blurry who is ACTING as PIC.
Not if you clearly follow the FARS by having the required conversation designating and defining the roles of each pilot. Regardless, CRM in no way "blurs" the roles... it actually helps "define", very specifically, the roles of each pilot.

Bob
 
I wish you the best of course. But at the Christmas party last night a few of the instructors made it very clear that they would leave if you came.

How many times has Sparks quit just to come back the next day? Plus the way Logan runs his mouth up there and makes up stories when I am not there who knows what garbo is in their heads. I swear that kid is so cocky if he doesn't fail a checkride to get a reality check he will probably end up killing himself and a student.

P.S.: make sure you have a medical when instructing primary students:)
 
Yea Sparks got lucky with the whole no medical thing but I beleive that was a honest mistake and hes got one now and thats what counts. As for Logan well you know him better then I do. I never had to live with him there. But again even if you dont agree with these guys you dont want to burn bridges. You can bring up all the negative stuff about them as you want but bottom line they will end up deciding your fate when it comes to skypark. As I said a peace offoring is probaly in line haha. Have you applied to GoJets? I remember you talking bout that in the pilot lounge a few weeks ago? Seems they are hiring wondering if you got a call?
 
Yea Sparks got lucky with the whole no medical thing but I beleive that was a honest mistake and hes got one now and thats what counts.

He got very lucky with the FSDO. Someone confronted him and he blew him off. That person was angry and went to the FSDO.
 
Was that person you?

Nah...I was in CHI at the time, which is really funny because I heard he was blaming me for a while. Believe you me I would be upfront about something like that. If you don't have a medical you shouldn't be instructing primary students. Anyone can make a mistake and just not notice that their medical is out of date but when confronted and you blow that person off...I would go to the FSDO.
 
I wish you the best of course. But at the Christmas party last night a few of the instructors made it very clear that they would leave if you came. Not sure what you did to piss them off? I must not of been around when whatever happened happened? So unfortuanly I dont think Dan will risk losing his two main instructors for you. Best advice I can give is offor a peace offoring haha.

Seriously, they said they will leave if he's hired?

Tools. Let them leave and find that there aren't any CFI jobs.

How many times has Sparks quit just to come back the next day? Plus the way Logan runs his mouth up there and makes up stories when I am not there who knows what garbo is in their heads. I swear that kid is so cocky if he doesn't fail a checkride to get a reality check he will probably end up killing himself and a student.

P.S.: make sure you have a medical when instructing primary students:)

You seriously want to work there? Yucky, sounds terrible man!
 
When you throw two pilots into an airplane and have them practice CRM like ATP wants them to I think it can become blurry who is ACTING as PIC.


How someone that has never been to ATP can tell us how ATP practices CRM? The fact that you think you know is laughable. On every single cross country I took I know exactly who was PIC in that airplane. There was never any doubt in my mind about that. On every cross country I took me and my partner worked as a team. Don't talk about something you don't know about.
 
How someone that has never been to ATP can tell us how ATP practices CRM? The fact that you think you know is laughable. On every single cross country I took I know exactly who was PIC in that airplane. There was never any doubt in my mind about that. On every cross country I took me and my partner worked as a team. Don't talk about something you don't know about.

I know you overpaid about 15k for your training.
 
I wouldn't agree with the Jhugz saying the airport is a daytime soap at all. Jhugz you may not like to here what I'm about to say but the only person who causes problems at the airport is you. And that fact your talking about it like you are on here and expect to get hired there is crazy. Hate to break the bubble to you but theres quite a few skypark instructors who have been following this convo on here and have called me to talk about your responses. Not making a good case for employment right now. As a employer I wouldn't hire someone who is going to down talk my airport. You may be a good pilot but you need to learn this is a business. And in business your NEVER burn bridges no matter how much you don't like the operation. You may have just forced yourself to work at McDonald's unless your leave this area.
 
I know you overpaid about 15k for your training.

No. Overpaying is when you go in thinking you'll be paying 30k and end up spending 45k. Going in thinking you'll pay 50 grand, and paying 50 grand is not over paying.

Jhugs, I would highly recommend you look for a CFI job elsewhere. It seems so much like the employees at the place you are looking to work, all share an "I've got mine" attitude. That will take them nowhere. Don't get sucked into it man. He's got a point about smack talking a place you are looking to work though, you shouldn't do that, no matter how true it may be.

It's a little comedic that they are all discussing this through a phone tree though... One hell of a rumor mill I think. I sure couldn't work there.

PS. sorry to hear you will have to move away or suffer working at McDonalds. Darn.
 
Thanks for the update... I didn't know this. It's been a while since I did the program. ;)

Are they actually going to do "crew" SE XC's where SP time is involved, or is the added SE XC time part of the Instrument/Instructional training with an instructor?

I'm not entirely sure, I just read that they were dropping the price slightly and substituting 25 hours of ME XC with 25 hours of SE. I assumed that they would do it safety-pilot.
 
wouldent let me quote Jhugz, so here's the copy/paste.

-----"Originally Posted by mshunter
#2, saftey pilot time is very valuble. it teaches you how to work as a team in a cockpit enviroment(read "put up with someone who is an idot").

I do have some safety pilot time however it is not at all very valuable. That may be what ATP uses to sucker you in but really it is an absolute waste in a 172. Also CRM isn't practiced because one should be doing all the flying and the radio's while the other is looking outside for other traffic ONLY.

#3, solo in an airplane with an emergency is dangerous. especially when the ink on your cert is wet. so as a confedence builder, too much is a dangerous thing. there is no such thing as an old bold pilot.

It is much more dangerous when there is an emergency with two equal skilled pilots in the airplane. If there is an instructor and a student obviously the instructor will handle the emergency. Two Private pilot's with 100 hrs fighting over the controls instead of dealing with the emergency at hand. Disaster IMHO-----"



LMAO!!!! who is this guy kidding!!!!!:rotfl:. i would rather have a second pilot on board, who can help me in an emergency, than be by myself to manage everything when one engine goes silent. even having someone manage the radios in an emergency is EXTREAMLY helpfull. as far as looking for traffic, havent you ever heard of the "i am going to be PIC of this flight" talk? or are you the guy who when i have that talk with, it goes in one ear and out the other because you are sooooooo much more capabile than i am. you must be that bold pilot everyone warns me about who will never grow old.:rotfl: if you cant figure out who will be PIC before the flight starts, THEN DON'T GO FLY. when i got the call from ATC that traffic was near, i looked up to see, when i was pilot flying. when i was pilot monitor, i was able to work radios, fetch charts, basically do everything but fly, and still managed to keep my head outside the airplane. besides, if you can't multi task, like work a radio, and look for traffic, you have no place flying an airplane, espically in a single pilot enviroment.

as far as looking for other traffic only, one pilot flies the whole time i guess and just keeps his head down, never looking outside for anything. if you do only flying, and thats all you do, you pick up a habbit. mabey that was the reason that ATP recently had an accident in FL, because that instructor did just that on his x-countries, and got used to not seeing and avoiding, kinda like what you just refrenced:drool:.

BTW, i had an engine go quite in a seminole on a x-country. it was my leg to PM, and the person flying i didn't trust as a pilot------but------ because there was 2 qualified pilots on board, she concentrated on flying, i concentrated on fixing the problem- check fuel psi-0-aux pump on check fuel psi-0- pump off- switch to x-feed/pump on-engine re-starts, fuel psi normal.- elapsed time***15 seconds*** we avoided having to declare an emergency, crisis avetred, everyone lives to see another day. it could have been the difference between a VMC roll/nasty NTSB report which would have read, "low time pilot crashes ATP seminole due to power loss." dosen't that sound like what happens in the big plane cockpits?:crazy: two people working as a team? CRM? i never took the controls, i knew my place. i assisted her through the problem. it kept her calm, and allowed her to concentrate on keeping the airplane under control, while i fixed the problem. could i/she have done ot by herself, sure. did it make life eaiser having a second qualified pilot on board, definatley.


now, go watch some more southpark kido.:D
 
How many times has Sparks quit just to come back the next day? Plus the way Logan runs his mouth up there and makes up stories when I am not there who knows what garbo is in their heads. I swear that kid is so cocky if he doesn't fail a checkride to get a reality check he will probably end up killing himself and a student.

:yeahthat:
your posts tell a valuble story. i learn more about you every day. people quit when you get hired! where are your interviews again?
 
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