multi time?

:yeahthat:
your posts tell a valuble story. i learn more about you every day. people quit when you get hired! where are your interviews again?

I sleep better at night knowing that I am 15k less in debt then you are now.:)

Also in your scenario above please explain to me how both pilots are logging time if so much time of the flying pilot is spent "outside" the airplane. Padding the Logs?
 
I sleep better at night knowing that I am 15k less in debt then you are now.:)

Also in your scenario above please explain to me how both pilots are logging time if so much time of the flying pilot is spent "outside" the airplane. Padding the Logs?

pilot flying is under the hood, pilot monitoring is not. pilot flying hears the radio call for "traffic 3 miles opposite direction, 12 o-clock, 6000ft. pilot flying removes view limiting device and helps pilot monitoring scan for traffic. traffic ID'ed by both pilots, pilot flying resumes flying under the hood. anymore questions.

your question leads me to belive that this "padding" you speak of comes from experince?

as for the 15k less in debt. i have a job, and am not in search of one, nor applying for one of which i have slandered. so i guess i won't be asking the question "would you like fries with that?":D
 
I know you overpaid about 15k for your training.

Jhugz, I did not overpay for my training. I knew exactly how much it would cost before I started. I could have done it cheaper, but I would still be working on my ratings now instead of getting paid to fly. I would also have A LOT less multi time then I do now. You just need to learn not to talk about something you know nothing about, like ATP.
 
It seems like you ATP'ers are pretty defensive on the subject. Just looks to me like buyers remorse.
 
Hey Glen, I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was questioning what you were saying exactly.

First off, you seemed to have selectively ignored the part where I said ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. I never said someone from an FBO couldn't have an MEI, don't put words in my mouth.
)

Yes, but you are assuming that flight schools on a whole are still hiring like crazy. All other things being equal at an interview, would you hire the guy with only his CFI-I, a guy who has his MEI (with only 30 hours), or the guy with all three certs and well over the minimum mark in multi-engine time to boot? Even for CFI's things are beginning to become THAT competitive.

Should I not be confused by what is in bold?
What things are equal if the certificates and multi time are not equal?

I also have been to ATP, I am not talking with out first hand experience.
 
I wouldn't agree with the Jhugz saying the airport is a daytime soap at all. Jhugz you may not like to here what I'm about to say but the only person who causes problems at the airport is you. And that fact your talking about it like you are on here and expect to get hired there is crazy. Hate to break the bubble to you but theres quite a few skypark instructors who have been following this convo on here and have called me to talk about your responses. Not making a good case for employment right now. As a employer I wouldn't hire someone who is going to down talk my airport. You may be a good pilot but you need to learn this is a business. And in business your NEVER burn bridges no matter how much you don't like the operation. You may have just forced yourself to work at McDonald's unless your leave this area.


I would like to address this post because I have followed this thread from the beginning.
JHugz has not talked smack about this place he wants to work on a public forum. If you know something about him on the outside, that is your own thing, but all I have read is that he wants to work there and has continually said it is a better choice than ATP, dollar wise (i am not trying to start anything with you ATP guys here , just stating what has been said).
The proprietor of the shop should be happy with what JHugz has said and how he believes this route is the best. Now, hiring somebody that will make the work place clash is another story.

I have not read of any burning bridges with the employer but I have towards you and your fellow CFIs. I have fellow employees that I don't get along with and it is impractical to think you will get along with everybody. Some people will rub you the wrong way. Be polite to them but don't be fake in the hops to not burn the coveted bridge.

THe work place is the original day time soap. Anybody that has worked a full time job through the days knows this. Everybody knows everything about you and what you do. Politics exists everywhere.

Unless you are the owner of skypark, it is not crazy to think that he won't get hired there someday.

One thing on etiquette:
Don't run to and tell somebody to lerk in the shadows of a public forum.
For you who are creeping, creeping might just be your way but props to JHugz for not doing that and being open.
How is this not facilitating the soap?
JHugz maybe too out spoken but you guys are coming across as REAL WEAK

Talking trash about a certain person is not talking trash the establishment.


MAN I HATE CREEPERS.
 
This thread is far from what it started out as.

No body wants to be wrong, and I don't think anybody is wrong.
What works for you guys worked for you and that is great.

Making it all the way through training is a feat in and of itself, no matter where you are.
We all know there are many many students who drop out.
We made it through to the other side and I know it is said sarcastically a lot we did what we needed to do to live the dream.

Merry Christmas everybody.
-Douglas
 
Douglas I agree with you totally and I dont encourage anyone to lerk on a public forum nor do I wish JHugz any badluck in his job search I wish anyone looking for a job well. I was simply trying to give JHugz some advice on things he could change if he wants to work at Skypark. I beleive that he is entitled to his opinion and if he wants to let his opinion be known all the more power to him. My post was simply just trying inform JHugz of whats being said behind the scenes right now and what he could possibly do to change his reputiation there. I know JHugz personally and have flown with him many times so if my post came off as trying to put him down I assure you that was not my intention. Just trying to help him figure out how to change his situation with the airport.
 
It seems like you ATP'ers are pretty defensive on the subject. Just looks to me like buyers remorse.


I do not regret going to ATP at all and nobody that I went through with does either. I completely agree with you that the FBO route is cheaper than ATP, but how long did it take you? How much multi time do you have? If the FBO route is better instruction, then how many checkrides did you bust? My answers to those questions are as follows. 1. 6 months private to MEI. 2. 140.2 hrs 3. I never busted a checkride.

The only reason I'm am agrueing with you is because you make pronoucements about a program that you have never gone through and know nothing about. You got the ratings your way and it was right for you. I got mine my way and it was right for me. Give your information about why you like the FBO route and be done with it. Don't attack a program that you know nothing about.
 
Douglas I agree with you totally and I dont encourage anyone to lerk on a public forum nor do I wish JHugz any badluck in his job search I wish anyone looking for a job well. I was simply trying to give JHugz some advice on things he could change if he wants to work at Skypark. I beleive that he is entitled to his opinion and if he wants to let his opinion be known all the more power to him. My post was simply just trying inform JHugz of whats being said behind the scenes right now and what he could possibly do to change his reputiation there. I know JHugz personally and have flown with him many times so if my post came off as trying to put him down I assure you that was not my intention. Just trying to help him figure out how to change his situation with the airport.

To clear this up. I like skypark and most of the people out there. I do have a major problem with the chief pilot. He is another one of those who comes off like god's gift to aviation when he is absolutely dangerous. I am not going to go into details but we have butted are heads numerous times on safety related issues. Maintenance is another issues. I am PIC I decide whether an airplane is airworthy enough to go flying not some whack job A&P. Also I use my landing light during landing during day, night, dusk, dawn, 3 miles vis, or 30. It is a safety issue and I think it should be used. A 2300 X 35 foot runway is a tough place for some to learn to fly. There is little room for error which is why there have been so many accidents involving these airplanes and the chief pilot. There is also a little pre-pubescent 17 year old that runs around the airport telling lies about me like we are in high school again...o wait he is. He is not only unsafe and dangerous he also displays a ton of defense mech's and hazardous attitudes. He really needs a reality check or he will kill himself and even worse others.
 
To clear this up. I like skypark and most of the people out there. I do have a major problem with the chief pilot. He is another one of those who comes off like god's gift to aviation when he is absolutely dangerous. I am not going to go into details but we have butted are heads numerous times on safety related issues. Maintenance is another issues. I am PIC I decide whether an airplane is airworthy enough to go flying not some whack job A&P. Also I use my landing light during landing during day, night, dusk, dawn, 3 miles vis, or 30. It is a safety issue and I think it should be used. A 2300 X 35 foot runway is a tough place for some to learn to fly. There is little room for error which is why there have been so many accidents involving these airplanes and the chief pilot. There is also a little pre-pubescent 17 year old that runs around the airport telling lies about me like we are in high school again...o wait he is. He is not only unsafe and dangerous he also displays a ton of defense mech's and hazardous attitudes. He really needs a reality check or he will kill himself and even worse others.


Don't knock on the young guys, it takes some time as a young pup to realize you need to check yourself before you reck yourself. Don't judge him because he's young, judge him because of how he flies and treats you (which, albeit, sounds like crap). As for 2300x35 being too short to learn on, I learned at z41, its 2200 x 75 ft. No bigey, plus there are trees at either end. You just have to learn from day one that you always have to pick your point and hit it every time, otherwise go around.

As for the lights, and the A&P etc. Look, lights burn out quick, no sense in leaving them turned on while you're on a 3hr cross country, in the practice area, yeah, turn them on. As for A&P mechanics, look, they know a hell of a lot more about the airplane than I do. If something is broke, write it up, otherwise, if it ain't broke, it ain't in the MEL, TCDS, part 91, etc. then why worry? I don't know the circumstances, but I think you probably need a reality check too. You're a good guy man, but there is no need to be so opinionated about some of this stuff there's no real right or wrong answer on this stuff, just opinions. When you're in the airplane, do what you want, but think some of this stuff through logically.

As for ATPs, I did my Multi there, and was impressed with the quality of the instructors despite their low time. That being said, I think the way that the logging works is shady at best. I tend to think that you learn more knowledge when you're at ATPs for your ratings, but lose out on some of the more stick and rudder stuff because A) you're splitting time, and B) You're not really spending that much time doing serious amounts of touch and goes, not really planning your cross-countries that much, and are going everywhere pretty much by means of the GPS. Its good for training IFR guys, and everyone of the pilots out of there (with the notably exception of my best friend, who grew up in aviation) seemed to be awesome at IFR, but short on judgement. I'd reccomend it ATPs to several groups of people. People who have a kid on the way and need a job NOW, and people who are young and want to knock everything out at once before they go to college, and then instruct or work 135 while they're studying. Just my $.02.

-pat
 
PPragman. Now that was a good post. Most of ATP is what people make out of it. Your right we probably don't get as many touch and goes as we should, actually we get none. They all have to be full stop/ taxi backs. On the cross countries some guys to just plan direct everywhere, others don't. Again it's what you make it.
 
I sleep better at night knowing that I am 15k less in debt then you are now.:)

Also in your scenario above please explain to me how both pilots are logging time if so much time of the flying pilot is spent "outside" the airplane. Padding the Logs?


well, i guess if you do the math, the money you spent on your multi time ($15k for your MEI which is 30-35 hours according to one of your [revios posts ) and the 100 hours more i got for my $15k, who should be sleeping better? you got ripped off dude! i think i win that one too. not to mention the fact that i will be at the real job first. and one more thing, back to the padding question, read the regs, both pilots can log PIC time if one is needed as a saftey pilot. you beeing an instructor, i guess i figured you would know this, or atleast know where to look. have you found somwhere else to move to yet? hope the new homebase search is going well.:crazy:
 
I know this is off topic. But does anyone think you can make a living flying part 135 freight because this is what I plan to try to do? Also do you think it is any easier (outside of the required 135 times) to get a job at a part 135 company?(Referring to is it more or less competitive then a part 121 job) I have heard both ways. I have heard if your make it clear you plan to stay a long time then they will automatically like you better because most people just use them as a time building job. Just wondering if there was any truth to that. The reason I am drawn to part 135 is being home more. I really like Mountain Air Cargo because from what I have read most of there runs are mon-fri and your home every night. I would love to be a chief pilot at a place like that one day. Any insight or comments about this would be appreciated.
 
PPragman. Now that was a good post. Most of ATP is what people make out of it. Your right we probably don't get as many touch and goes as we should, actually we get none. They all have to be full stop/ taxi backs. On the cross countries some guys to just plan direct everywhere, others don't. Again it's what you make it.


As far as the touch and goes are concerned...if you went to another place to do them where someone wasn't going to rat on you to dispatch you got away with them. What dispatch didn't know didn't hurt them :)
 
I know this is off topic. But does anyone think you can make a living flying part 135 freight because this is what I plan to try to do? Also do you think it is any easier (outside of the required 135 times) to get a job at a part 135 company?(Referring to is it more or less competitive then a part 121 job) I have heard both ways. I have heard if your make it clear you plan to stay a long time then they will automatically like you better because most people just use them as a time building job. Just wondering if there was any truth to that. The reason I am drawn to part 135 is being home more. I really like Mountain Air Cargo because from what I have read most of there runs are mon-fri and your home every night. I would love to be a chief pilot at a place like that one day. Any insight or comments about this would be appreciated.


I think you should ask the source, the freight dogs have their own corner of this site.
 
well, i guess if you do the math, the money you spent on your multi time ($15k for your MEI which is 30-35 hours according to one of your [revios posts ) and the 100 hours more i got for my $15k, who should be sleeping better? you got ripped off dude! i think i win that one too. not to mention the fact that i will be at the real job first. and one more thing, back to the padding question, read the regs, both pilots can log PIC time if one is needed as a saftey pilot. you beeing an instructor, i guess i figured you would know this, or atleast know where to look. have you found somwhere else to move to yet? hope the new homebase search is going well.:crazy:


Guess what, the multi time ATPs gets you doesn't mean crap. You need wet ink multi certs at most jobs out there, then once you get on board, after the first 3 months flying freight as a captain, or driving pax between BOS and EWR or whatever, you're going to have more multi time doing thatthan anything else.

Single engine time is incredibly valuable for another reason, single engine time is stick and rudder time. When you spend a couple hundred hours as your starting out conciously having to add "right rudder" because the airplane doesn't have rudder trim, or spend scads of time looking for places to land, and or simulating power off landings, you gain valuable insight from doing this, and learn a little more about the airplane. Twins can and will be flown at work, you'll learn way more from flying them at your first job than you ever could with 200hrs of multi, especially if its split with a safety pilot, and even more so if a lot of it is at cruise.
 
Guess what, the multi time ATPs gets you doesn't mean crap. You need wet ink multi certs at most jobs out there, then once you get on board, after the first 3 months flying freight as a captain, or driving pax between BOS and EWR or whatever, you're going to have more multi time doing thatthan anything else.

Single engine time is incredibly valuable for another reason, single engine time is stick and rudder time. When you spend a couple hundred hours as your starting out conciously having to add "right rudder" because the airplane doesn't have rudder trim, or spend scads of time looking for places to land, and or simulating power off landings, you gain valuable insight from doing this, and learn a little more about the airplane. Twins can and will be flown at work, you'll learn way more from flying them at your first job than you ever could with 200hrs of multi, especially if its split with a safety pilot, and even more so if a lot of it is at cruise.

:yeahthat:

And just an FYI my CMEL and then my MEI when I get it will cost me a combined cost of about 5k not 15k
 
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