Meaningful time building

[Rosstafari]

Didn’t get any responses in a different sub, so trying here. Searched a bit for this and didn’t see anything, so...

What do you feel are the most valuable ways to build time between the end of training and 1500 (or beyond) when your next intended step is the regionals? I’ve heard some generalities, like instructing tends to be a plus and limited scope flying like jump ops is not, but not much beyond that. I’d like my time to both work to make me a better pilot and to make me more attractive as a hire... not just adding hours to my line.

To throw a few examples out there, let’s say you have people coming from backgrounds in:

Skydiving
Banner tows
Local sightseeing
Box hauler/cargo feeder
Part 135 EAS/small carrier (e.g. Boutique, SAA)
“Career track” flight school instructing (ATP, CAE, etc)
College flight program instructing
Mom and Pop flight school
Alaska/bush flying (pax or cargo, Ravn, Grant, etc)
Pipeline patrol/aerial survey
Crop dusting/ag flight

Any of these jumping out at you as good, bad, or anything else of particular note when it comes to building valuable time and skills… and making you a better regional candidate?

Thanks for any comments. I’m getting close to finishing out my program, which should end with a CFII to my name, and I want to start evaluating what options are the wisest.

Edit to add: I’m not as concerned about pay, since none of these are going to make me rich anyway, and almost all of them sound enjoyable (though I’m inclined towards 135 or instructing). Few jump out at me as “nope, not interested in that,” in terms of liking what I do. At least as an outsider… I know that may well change.

 

[Stryker172]

135 or instructing are both great options. I did both and each job was a great learning experience. Whatever you choose to do my biggest suggestion is to enjoy it. You'll have your entire career to fly jets and only a few brief years to enjoy the GA flying.

 

[TWP]

121 flying is ifr flying. Get your cfii and teach.

 

[Nark]

I'd suggest do any of the above. Which ever will allow you to pay the bills, and gain experience.
You'll be a better pilot if you do something other than CFIing.

I can immediately tell who has stick and rudder skills and who sat in a plane and didn't fly to gain their hours to 121.

Hurt feelings revealing themselves in:
3
2
1
...

 

[Murdoughnut]

The regionals aren't going to care how you got your time right now - they're looking for warm bodies with 1,500 hours, however they got'em.

 

[bimmerphile]

I personally enjoyed the aerial survey stuff, outside of the sky mowing of Pictometry. Fly all over the country, coordinate with ATC in unfamiliar airspace and challenging terrain, getting the most performance out of the aircraft across the envelope to get the shot/laser beam where it needs to be on target, altitude and speed. CFI in complex airspace or 135 would be good too. Just try to get a wide variety of experience to develop your decision making and communication skills. Flying divers or instructing in Class E/G all day won't let you practice all of the skills you need later in your career

 

[ASpilot2be]

I personally enjoyed the aerial survey stuff, outside of the sky mowing of Pictometry. Fly all over the country, coordinate with ATC in unfamiliar airspace and challenging terrain, getting the most performance out of the aircraft across the envelope to get the shot/laser beam where it needs to be on target, altitude and speed. CFI in complex airspace or 135 would be good too. Just try to get a wide variety of experience to develop your decision making and communication skills. Flying divers or instructing in Class E/G all day won't let you practice the all of the skills you need later in your career

Exactly this. The people that struggle the most are the people that don't get much instrument experience, and never really leave the pattern.

 

[tcco94]

I thought instructing made me a better pilot, but I guess some people don't agree. It was a better decision for me rather than sitting in a right seat of a caravan or banner towing solo etc. To each their own. The amount of knowledge I had from before to after my CFI checkride and dual given was not even close. The regionals won't care either way. It's whatever you want to do.

I taught private for about 3 months and then did 9 months and 6-700 hours of only teaching IFR. So that helped my transition too. FWIW

 

[z987k]

I thought instructing made me a better pilot, but I guess some people don't agree. It was a better decision for me rather than sitting in a right seat of a caravan or banner towing solo etc. To each their own. The amount of knowledge I had from before to after my CFI checkride and dual given was not even close. The regionals won't care either way. It's whatever you want to do.

I taught private for about 3 months and then did 9 months and 6-700 hours of only teaching IFR. So that helped my transition too. FWIW

Being a sack of potatoes in the right seat of a single pilot airplane is far far worse experience than CFI. I would suggest no one go be a non-required crewmember.

 

[TWP]

I thought instructing made me a better pilot, but I guess some people don't agree.

The people who don’t agree are wrong.

 

[Hiboglossi]

I second this:

I'd suggest do any of the above. Which ever will allow you to pay the bills, and gain experience.

Any of those should allow you to build time. The most important thing is whatever doesn't pay too badly and avoid companies and operators that are inordinately unsafe.

Personally I instructed and then did aerial survey.

Survey was mostly done in VFR and is probably the easiest flying job there is. I think my flying skills definitely deteriorated from it, but that was also my fault for not making more of an effort to get instrument current and proficient before starting at the airlines. As I result I ended up washing out at my first regional, and earlier this year I had a jumpseater who was a sim instructor at a different airline and said former survey pilots were usually the worst students he had.

That said, the vast majority of survey pilots seem to do just fine with airline traing, so I wouldn't worry too much. I've never done 135 but I do wonder if flying as a 135 SIC might be the best time builder of all since you'd probably get plenty of IFR experience.

Certainly plenty of people look down on instructing, but I think it is valuable experience not only because of the level of knowledge you have to maintain, but it is also excellent CRM experience since you are flying in what is essentially a 2 person crew.

 

[killbilly]

I'd suggest do any of the above. Which ever will allow you to pay the bills, and gain experience.
You'll be a better pilot if you do something other than CFIing.

Want to make sure I understand you - are you saying that he'll be a better pilot if he does something other than CFI, or he'll be a better pilot if he does some other kind of flying, having decided not to CFI?

I'm trying to figure out if your stance is that CFI does/does not make one a better pilot.

 

[CFI A&P]

If you're shooting for 121, have a plan. To be eligible for 121 -> ATP. What are ATP requirements? 1,500 hours and...... 61.159 (unless R-ATP which can vary depending on your exemptions). That is 5.4 million seconds of flight time with 500 hours of cross country. Sit down and really understand the different forms of cross country. Now you'll need a 3:1 ratio of total time and cross country time to be 121 eligible in the most efficient way possible. Flight instructing, banner towing and launching meat missiles won't offer too much XC time. If you go that route, plan on some other way to gain the XC time.

Good luck, there is a lot of flying out there and have fun while doing it.

 

[tcco94]

Just remember the regs for XC time towards ATP don't require a landing (FAR 61.1(b)(Vi)). Almost all my instrument lessons ended up being XC based on that rule alone. Of course, you still need a 50nm straight line and if you only have 1 student with you that will be hard. Either way, a lot of instructors didn't know about this rule and would go through the hassle to do touch and go's at airports over 50nm. Waste of time mostly to benefit their logbook and not the students time.

 

[Troy McClure]

I think FWIW...SIC you do learn some basic CRM, Flows, keeping your mouth shut, walk-arounds, doing what the CA wants..etc...actually pretty useful stuff. As well as, learning to be on time, correct uniform, even better stuff.... Also a good way to find out if you can even handle that sort of gig...Or do you want to fly boxes ?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

https://www.capeair.com/

 

[mshunter]

Instruct. You will learn the most valuable stuff there.

 

[mshunter]

The regionals aren't going to care how you got your time right now - they're looking for warm bodies with 1,500 hours, however they got'em.

That's not why it matters.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Want to make sure I understand you - are you saying that he'll be a better pilot if he does something other than CFI, or he'll be a better pilot if he does some other kind of flying, having decided not to CFI?

I'm trying to figure out if your stance is that CFI does/does not make one a better pilot.

Instruct.

In the 121 world average stick and rudder skills are adequate. Obviously being better than average is ideal, but the stuff going on between your ears is what is going to make or break you, and that gets quite a workout instructing.

 

[AA34]

If you're shooting for 121, have a plan. To be eligible for 121 -> ATP. What are ATP requirements? 1,500 hours and...... 61.159 (unless R-ATP which can vary depending on your exemptions). That is 5.4 million seconds of flight time with 500 hours of cross country. Sit down and really understand the different forms of cross country. Now you'll need a 3:1 ratio of total time and cross country time to be 121 eligible in the most efficient way possible. Flight instructing, banner towing and launching meat missiles won't offer too much XC time. If you go that route, plan on some other way to gain the XC time.

Good luck, there is a lot of flying out there and have fun while doing it.

Can’t you get a R-ATP with 200xc?