Legal ramifications of majors not hiring "connection" carrier pilots

[Autothrust Blue]

A psychic? Yes.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Oh it's easier than you think, just learn to roll with it.

Theoretically, some people I know will start at the bottom of the resume and work their way up. If you're at the table, you already meet the minimums, can fly a jet, whoopty-doo, that's just numbers.

I wouldn't be looking for keywords or the right answer, but really "how" the applicant answers because you're trying to efficiently determine the applicants comportment — is he a BS artist that saw the pay rates on APC and is going to tell you what you think you want to hear so he can get the job, or does he actually want the job. Does the applicant understand that simply showing up to work (or the damned hotel van, but thats another thread) on time and flying a jet is only about 1/3 of the job or is that something that has to be taught.

I'm going to do what I have to do to make you the best damned applicant I've seen all day if you just let me. All of that, of course, if I actually was in a position to be an evaluator.

I don't know, I can go on and on, especially since I've had a cocktail.

Meh, by and large it's a pretty gamey game. Interviewers have a list of pre-cooked questions. Interviewees- the good ones anyway- have a basket of pre-cooked answers.

The interviewees without the precooked answers? The worst and the best. The worst don’t know they need ‘em. The best don’t care if they have ‘em. Neither the worst nor the best are usually selected, in an almost praefinio fashion. The worst? Well… that’s easy. The best? They generally present as and ask the kinds of questions that scare the piss out of interviewers. Going to rock the boat. Intimidating - asks questions to which I don’t know the answer. Going to steal my job. Going to be an outlier to the working group, etc, etc. Very few interviewers appreciate really talented, skilled, knowledgeable interviewees. Read Harrison Bergeron.

Aviation is a bit different since promotion is not based on greater skill or competence, just years at the company. So a really outstanding candidate might make the cut. But even in aviation, smart, observant, big-picture, change-agent types are not generally desired. The desire is basically to fill a seat with someone of average to above average competence who will show up on time in a neatly pressed uniform, not be an ass to team mates or customers, and not ask questions.

In any case, the interview process, aviation or otherwise, does not represent a milieu infused with authenticity.

Efficient? Maybe. At least more efficient than more effective alternatives.

Effective? I suppose good enough. More often than not, for better or worse, all that is needed to succeed in business is to be just a little better than your competition. Hardly a recipe for promoting excellence. But, as stated, effective enough.

I’ve always found the most effective way to interview is to interview when the interviewee has no idea the interview is taking place. Like while working with someone, while sitting at a bar having a drink with someone, while waiting in a long line with someone, etc. Gives a sense of the real person and how the person will present in a real environment, preferably while experiencing some kind of mild stress due to the exigencies of the external situation. No, it’s not efficient. And, it’s old school; These days it’s all web apps and filling those seats with someone good enough.

 

[mastermags]

What I mean to posit is that, FFD schemes are leveraged as negotiating capital in mainline collective bargaining strategies. Consign X number of regional applicants to the growing fleet of 90 seat, C scale lift, because the market demands this and our survival depends on it (factually inaccurate incendiary propaganda). This effectively delegitimizes an enormous number of pilots, who did not have a name, who would have benefitted from your experience, and places them in a Hunger Games type scenario where, not the best shot, but the cheapest mug wins. This is replete with the chosen gurus lobbing potshots from the sidelines.

Its just a really crappy way to treat your colleagues that invariably leads to a great deal of resentment among them. In a nutshell, its hurtful.

 

[derg]

Meh, by and large it's a pretty gamey game. Interviewers have a list of pre-cooked questions. Interviewees- the good ones anyway- have a basket of pre-cooked answers.

The interviewees without the precooked answers? The worst and the best. The worst don’t know they need ‘em. The best don’t care if they have ‘em. Neither the worst nor the best are usually selected, in an almost praefinio fashion. The worst? Well… that’s easy. The best? They generally present as and ask the kinds of questions that scare the piss out of interviewers. Going to rock the boat. Intimidating - asks questions to which I don’t know the answer. Going to steal my job. Going to be an outlier to the working group, etc, etc. Very few interviewers appreciate really talented, skilled, knowledgeable interviewees. Read Harrison Bergeron.

Aviation is a bit different since promotion is not based on greater skill or competence, just years at the company. So a really outstanding candidate might make the cut. But even in aviation, smart, observant, big-picture, change-agent types are not generally desired. The desire is basically to fill a seat with someone of average to above average competence who will show up on time in a neatly pressed uniform, not be an ass to team mates or customers, and not ask questions.

In any case, the interview process, aviation or otherwise, does not represent a milieu infused with authenticity.

Efficient? Maybe. At least more efficient than more effective alternatives.

Effective? I suppose good enough. More often than not, for better or worse, all that is needed to succeed in business is to be just a little better than your competition. Hardly a recipe for promoting excellence. But, as stated, effective enough.

I’ve always found the most effective way to interview is to interview when the interviewee has no idea the interview is taking place. Like while working with someone, while sitting at a bar having a drink with someone, while waiting in a long line with someone, etc. Gives a sense of the real person and how the person will present in a real environment, preferably while experiencing some kind of mild stress due to the exigencies of the external situation. No, it’s not efficient. And, it’s old school; These days it’s all web apps and filling those seats with someone good enough.

Ok, you guys win. What the hell do I know.

Horse. Water. Maybe the horse ain't thirsty.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Ok, you guys win. What the hell do I know.

Horse. Water. Maybe the horse ain't thirsty.

Ah crap, now I feel bad. I was generalizing to kinda sorta point out the exceptions, like yourself. I love how you tried to put the fellow at ease by talking about sailing, for instance. My wee rant was to point out that, in my experience - on both sides of the interviewing equation, folks like yourself seem much more the exception than the rule.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Ah crap, now I feel bad. I was generalizing to kinda sorta point out the exceptions, like yourself. I love how you tried to put the fellow at ease by talking about sailing, for instance. My wee rant was to point out that, in my experience - on both sides of the interviewing equation, folks like yourself seem much more the exception than the rule.

@Derg is a remarkably straight shooter in this space.

 

[SKYROCK]

Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.

I figure Derg is an good interviewer. From the vantage point of the internal customer, I detect only a shred of obtuseness and mild sarcasm. I have compartmentalized this. I reason that this is a necessary trait, on some level, for a U boat skipper to maintain a tidy deck and drive away undesirable interlopers.

 

[mastermags]

What I mean to posit is that, FFD schemes are leveraged as negotiating capital in mainline collective bargaining strategies. Consign X number of regional applicants to the growing fleet of 90 seat, C scale lift, because the market demands this and our survival depends on it (factually inaccurate incendiary propaganda). This effectively delegitimizes an enormous number of pilots, who did not have a name, who would have benefitted from your experience, and places them in a Hunger Games type scenario where, not the best shot, but the cheapest mug wins. This is replete with the chosen gurus lobbing potshots from the sidelines.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

@Derg is a remarkably straight shooter in this space.

Definitely the impression I get. It seems almost spherically evident that @Derg is one of the true exemplars.

 

[Cptnchia]

Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.

I figure Derg is an good interviewer. From the vantage point of the internal customer, I detect only a shred of obtuseness and mild sarcasm. I have compartmentalized this. I reason that this is a necessary trait, on some level, for a U boat skipper to maintain a tidy deck and drive away undesirable interlopers.

 

[mshunter]

Which if anyone spent 30 seconds of research on the career, it wouldn't be "Hunger Games".

Do you know how many people who drop out of college to fly jets and then email me about the evil hiring practices of airlines which require degrees? Looooooooads.

One can bitch about being "stuck" or use that same energy to "unstick" themselves. Everyone is hiring.

I honestly just hope I finish my degree before the wave is over. I hate school. But that's the only thing, as far as I can see, that's holding me back. I should have listened.

 

[DPApilot]

Which if anyone spent 30 seconds of research on the career, it wouldn't be "Hunger Games".

Do you know how many people who drop out of college to fly jets and then email me about the evil hiring practices of airlines which require degrees? Looooooooads.

One can bitch about being "stuck" or use that same energy to "unstick" themselves. Everyone is hiring.

Dude, I never emailed you, it was text!

 

[derg]

Dude, I never emailed you, it was text!

Nah, I wasn't referring to you, cupcake!

 

[DPApilot]

Nah, I wasn't referring to you, cupcake!

Should I bring a cupcake to the next event?

 

[derg]

Should I bring a cupcake to the next event?

PBR, man!

 

[DPApilot]

PBR, man!

I was thinking Vodka outside of a store in a strip mall?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I honestly just hope I finish my degree before the wave is over. I hate school. But that's the only thing, as far as I can see, that's holding me back. I should have listened.

You're doin' it wrong, then.

Primary and secondary education suck for self-directed, interested learners. College is an opportunity to, in no particular order:
(1) do some cool things you never thought you'd do (research)
(2) possibly discover passions you didn't know you had
(3) meet some pretty awesome people and learn how to collaborate with them - this is a tremendous team effort we're in, here
(4) become a better citizen.

(I can tell who does, and does not, have a degree, with about a 70% hit rate, when I go to work and fly with someone new.)

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Nah, I wasn't referring to you, cupcake!

I need my Dear Dough letter pre-approved, plz.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.

I figure Derg is an good interviewer. From the vantage point of the internal customer, I detect only a shred of obtuseness and mild sarcasm. I have compartmentalized this. I reason that this is a necessary trait, on some level, for a U boat skipper to maintain a tidy deck and drive away undesirable interlopers.

As much as I wish they'd take me from my airline (not yet, but someday), I have to say that the folks they've taken from my airline are by and large awesome, and I miss working with them. I've not yet been able to observe - or possibly work with- @Derg on the flight deck, but one of these days I will, and I look forward to it.

To keep the Shawshank thing going, since you started it and it's on topic - “Some birds are not meant to be caged, that's all. Their feathers are too bright, their songs too sweet and wild. So you let them go, or when you open the cage to feed them they somehow fly out past you. And the part of you that knows it was wrong to imprison them in the first place rejoices, but still, the place where you live is that much more drab and empty for their departure.”

 

[SKYROCK]

Thanks my friend. Love that movie and Freeman is a favorite. Could not resist. Warden Hadley was a vile man no?