Help- ATP or FBO

Lancer151

New Member
I'm 25 and I've been thinking about being a pilot for the last 3 years and now finally ready to take the step (took me 3 years to finally figure out that Im not cut out for a desk job).
I live near LA and found a FBO for decent price.
5k for PP/ 40 hours total.
I see that a lot of you guys are saying that FBO is the best way for saving money but I also want to get this done quickly.
FBO does seem to me the cheapest solution but it seems to me that ATP has more flight time.
I know there are tons of threads just like this one but some recommendations from you guys will be great :)
 

NickH

Uber Driver
I think right now any FBO worth it's salt will be able to provide you with as rapid a training as ATP, given the same weather. It's not like there's an instructor shortage.

And if the school does start to have problems, it's easy to go elsewhere.
 

wjmiller3

Well-Known Member
Also, The price they quoted was the minimum for a PPL. Be aware that the chances are you will go over 40hrs. So find out what the hourly rate is if you go over. Did my checkride at 52hrs. How much ground did the 5K include?
 

Lancer151

New Member
http://www.ballardaviationinc.com/rates.html
is the school i was looking at.
"This rating includes 40 hours total, 30 dual, 10 solo." is all it says for private.

"Instruction Rate is $49.00 Per Hour flight." and arounf 95 for the plane.

lets say I do finish with around 50 hours.
thats extra added on to the 5k and don't I need around 80 hours to get the next certifications or I move to another school?
 

BillH

New Member
Theres a surplus of instructors and a shortage of students right now. You should have absolutely no problem finishing quickly at an FBO if the flight school is not ran by goofey and donald duck.
You could be your instructors only student for all you know. Pay as you go, sign no contracts. Do part 61. If your unhappy, go somewhere else with no strings attached. My newest student only lasted a few days. He quit his high paying job in England, decided he wanted to be a pilot, came down to Florida, started doing ground school and flying with me. His wife then called and threatened divorce and to cut off his money. Needless to say he is going back to England. Being a pilot is not how you view it at the moment. I highly suggest you do your private at an FBO and after you get your PPL, and ONLY then, make your decision if this is what you truly want to do. It seams everyone must be broke first if they want a career in aviation.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I'd fly that little IFR 150E for $60/hr. If you can fit into it, it's best to learn in the smallest, cheapest, little thing you can find. Don't buy into the hype. You don't need glass, GPS, or 180hp to learn to fly...
 

N826AW

Snooki's Baby Daddy
It's hard to compare all FBOs to ATP. If you found a decent, well-run FBO what can get you done at a lower cost and in a similar time frame as ATP jump on it.
 

Lancer151

New Member
Ok guys.. quick question.
Average rate for PPL in LA Area=$5k-$12k. 40 hours to 65 hours
ATP=$10k last time i checked with 85 hours.

Isn't it a good idea not sign a career program with ATP and just try my PPL there?
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Ok guys.. quick question.
Average rate for PPL in LA Area=$5k-$12k. 40 hours to 65 hours
ATP=$10k last time i checked with 85 hours.

Isn't it a good idea not sign a career program with ATP and just try my PPL there?
Can't do that at ATP. The only way they'll do your private is if you sign up for the Career Pilot Program. At least, that's how it used to be. Probably still is, though.
 

Lancer151

New Member
How does an extra 25 hours cost $7k?
The FBOs that are listing their prices at $5k are offering bare minimums, not even ground school.
$12k schools have higher prices for planes/instructors, including medical exam cost, FAA exam, etc.

I thought I saw PPL for 10k for 85 hours yesterday at ATP site yesterday. Guess I'll be making a call tomorrow.
 

N826AW

Snooki's Baby Daddy
It's $10k for the PPL + a $2k deposit for the ACPP. If you decide at the end of the PPL to not continue with the rest of the program you forfeit your $2k.
 

GlenA

Senior Chicken Counter
In my opinion do at least your PPL at an FBO. And if you can afford to, take your time! After that, fly solo for a while and enjoy your license (again, if you can afford to) or take your friends and have them help differ the cost. Then decide if you want to go to ATP or continue at an FBO. I went to ATP to finish my licenses and I loved it. But realize right now the airlines for the most part aren't hiring and most CFI and non-CFI type jobs for time building are drying up since the industry is stagnated. If it makes more financial sense for you to rush your ratings now then go ahead, but if you can afford to take your time then take your time! Something tells me 90 days from now the situation out there might not have improved much.
 

Lancer151

New Member
How important is Multi time for being hired as a CFI?
165 Hours Multi-Engine Time
65 Hours Multi-Engine Instruction
& Flight Checks
50 Hours Multi-Engine Cross-Country
50 Hours Multi-Engine FTD

is what ATP claims, FBO that I've seen have only about 20 hours in their program.
 

SoCalFlyer2

Well-Known Member
There aren't many CFI jobs available right now. You have 2000+hour people with 121 experience that are furloughed willing to take CFI jobs . I work with a guy who as 3500TT, 1000hr multi turbine time and a lear type rating and cant find any decent flying jobs. Unless you work for a big academy, you'll be mostly racking up single engine hours. The problem is there is a shortage of students and too many CFI's out there. When the airlines were hiring there was a shortage of CFIs but that is no longer the case. The larger schools are trying to attract enough students to keep their current CFI's employed let alone hire any new ones. Things will change but I suspect this downturn will last a little while.
 

Nihon_Ni

Well-Known Member
How important is Multi time for being hired as a CFI?
165 Hours Multi-Engine Time
65 Hours Multi-Engine Instruction
& Flight Checks
50 Hours Multi-Engine Cross-Country
50 Hours Multi-Engine FTD

is what ATP claims, FBO that I've seen have only about 20 hours in their program.
It all depends on where you get hired. At my school, we don't have a multi, so it's not important at all. The school I worked at previously had a twin, but new CFIs were hired for single engine work. The twin flying went to the more senior CFIs who had a lot more experience as instructors. If you're looking to get hired at a place like ATP, then its a requirement from day one.

I'd say that traditionally, guys get ASEL CPL & CFI and then start work as an instructor. After they've had a chance to learn how to instruct they add on the instrument and twin ratings. That's a basic crawl-walk-run scenario.
 

Brian Z

Well-Known Member
It looks like you are leaning towards ATP. That is fine, but keep this in mind. Unless you have 60000 cash you will need a loan. So now when you finish you will not have a job and still need to make the 700 or so payment every month. Figure out what the loan will cost you and then compare that to paying as you go. I bet you will be better off paying as you go. Make important decisions on facts not feelings.
 

Douglas

Old School KSUX
my two cents-

I did both.

There is nothing about FBO that says slow. It is really up to you and your schedule. If dedicate your full day to flight training, no matter where you are it will be accelerated.
If you can get a $60000 loan for ATP you can get one for the FBO.
If you want to do it fast, tell your flight instructor (there are plenty with light schedules).
You can spend your full day at the FBO, where ATP is located, or spend your full day at your local FBO. The difference is that, it is you who needs to keep motivated and keep walking back to the FBO everyday.
So if you can do that, I would tell you to sleep in your own bed at night and live where you pay your mortgage and not incur extra costs in hotels.

one last cent: Most airlines want 100 hours of multi-time. Anything over that is padding. By padding I mean, what does it matter if you have 300 hours multi if you don't have the TT mins. Get the TT mins and the Mulit-mins and apply if that is your goal. In my opinion, the money savings of two hundred hours of multi-time far out weighs the benefit or the ability to say, "I not only have the mins but I have and extra two hundred of multi I didn't need."
Again, that is my opinion and there are many that will disagree with me, but those are mostly people who paid for the extra engine.
 

Lancer151

New Member
I don't expect to get into the the Airlines right away after training.
But crossing fingers 3-4 years after I am done, I will be.
Out of all the schools I checked out, ATP gives the most Multi time.
does that constitute as something when trying to find a job as CFI compared to folks without the multi hours?
 
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